2H rage needs a buff?

[Apoca1ypse]

just so we dont clutter the coming soon thread with something unrelated:

2H rage buff would be nice. needing 500hp more than the other guy to have a chance is a little /sad panda

After reading Kharn's fights all week, it does seem that 2hand rage needs a buff, seeing a 1handed rage with so much less life beat Kharn was silly. I think it would also be nice if one of the higher level rage skills nullified create distance. Most I have seen is 1-2 attacks per round from a 2hand rage, so create distance is just an I WIN skill verse an entire build, and create distance is a skill that anyone can get, it just boggles the mind

i noticed Nate's tip of the week. even running 10/10 zerk and +50 attack power, i'm only seeing 2 attacks a round with a speed 1 weapon.

Thanks for the new tip Nate

with the number of attacks per round as far as 2 handed weapons go. Caine throws 2 normally UNLESS his last stand triggers then he's thrown as many as 4 in a round. I've had his Agility as high as 140 and he throws just as many as if his agi was 80. honestly i'm beginning to doubt the effects of armor movement. laharl has already stated that he didnt see any increase in attacks. and the penalty to initiative from heavy armor is alot more severe than light armor.

Armor movement skill increases initiative not number of attacks. The higher the initiative the more likely your glad will get the jump on his opponent each round. This is very critical for glads using 2-hand weapons.

Also the lower the bloodlust the quicker your glad is in their attacks...think of it like this..the more you wind up to hit someone the longer it takes.

As for create distance.. It is an absolute killer for 2-hand weapon glads.. Most of Eruption's and Sliver's losses come from getting create distanced to death. They rarely lose a shot for shot fight. But this is a hard skill for Nate to control because a level 10 cd skill will occur once a round...which kills a 2-handed..but is not a huge deal for someone who attacks 3 or more times a round. Only way I think to solve this is put a filter in the simulation program that decreases the chances slightly that a CD will occur per round for a glad using a 2-hand weapon...my reasoning for this is that those are larger weapons requiring more distance in a fight..so it would be harder to kick them out of the way. This is just a thought.. I'm sure others have feeling on this.

carry on

[TwoDie]

So what exactly are we looking for here.......? It looks like rage community would like more attacks a round ? or is it more attack on the weapons ? Or the initive thing so they can't get dominated as easy with CD and agility through the roof and 10 attacks or more per round? or am i missing it all or something ?

[Apoca1ypse]

well, 2H rage has the ability to do heaps of damage in 1 swing, so getting extra swings may be imbalanced...though 1 extra swing a round may be ok. CD is still incredibly rough to 2H, as is hamstring. it also seems like most of the rage skills are simply better when combined with a dual weapon fighting style.

Initiative boost wont help much because CD and hamstring can still screw it over hardcore.

[Cynaidh]

I personally think that CD is the biggest problem, the fact that all three types of glads can take it and nullify 50% of the attacks that a 2H rage does is just wrong. Perhaps something like removing the crippling might skill from rage (Combine its effect with devastating power, they kind of go together anyways) and replace it with a skill at that rank that "Increases attack speed and distance with two-handed weapons" and what this would do is allow a high level 2h Rage to get up to 3 attacks per round and a % chance to nullify CD. So we would end up seeing something like:

KHARN smashes his WYRMWOOD MAUL downward.
LAHARL kicks KHARN in the chest knocking him out of striking range! (-Create Distance-)
KHARN over-extends his WYRMWOOD MAUL (-2Hand Extend-)
Jarring blow to LAHARL's back looks very painful! (+122 Damage) <--- OP Heavy armor :P

[crow]

My only suggestion for both 2 hand Rage and War....would be a SLIGHT reduction in the chance for a create distance..for those using a 2 hand weapon. With only an attack or 2 a round and getting CD'ed 4 or 5 rounds in a row is an absolute killer. But I am against these weapons getting an extra attack or 2 per round...due to the massive damage that they cause (especially by a Rager). Another variable to factor in is fighting style..this is a main source of defense for a defensive glad..especially defensive war.

All this factors into the balancing of the game which right now looks okay, it is not like the 2-handers are getting shut out at the bottom...Cainedesolis..Eruption..Sliver..Kharn..ec t... are all doing good. With different types of builds starting to get stronger, this game is now showing more versatility. Unlike in the past when there were one or 2 dominant builds and the rest were getting shutout...now different builds are winning at the highest levels of the game. Now more than ever fight strategy, healing injuries, and just keeping up...is playing a huge role in this game.

[Cynaidh]

Not sure if I agree. That hit above was from last nights blood games.

Jarring blow to LAHARL's back looks very painful! (+122 Damage)

That's a 2H Rage getting a hit on a Warrior in full heavy armor. The largest non-Rampage hit that KHARN got in that fight was 268. His rampage hit was for 777. Those don't seem like massive hits to me, even the rampage wasn't really massive and it only happens once a fight.

Caine's fight seems very similar, he is pulling off bigger normal hits 400's -500's (not counting rampage), but again he won because Bloodbath Ii's CD never went of one time during the fight, and Caine only won by 560 hit points even though he started with almost 300 hit points more then Bloodbath Ii, one CD could have won the fight for Bloodbath Ii easily.

You can really see the effect of Hamstring and the Heavy Armor in Eruption vs Laphroaig again from the blood games. Eruptions first hit was a hamstring, causing Laphroaig to get 1 attack in the first round instead of his normal 4-6, and that one attack bounced off the heavy armor, he never gets another attack due to Eruption killing him (two hits 550 and 559, these two hits are MORE damage then Caine did in his fight per hit).

So in those examples we have a warrior using bastard swords who is hitting for up to the low 500's in damage, and another warrior hitting for mid 500's with a great sword, while the one of the rage's didn't get a hit above 268 damage, the other in the low 500's, and the last rage didn't get a single hit in. So for non rampage hits in a rage vs warrior fight the warriors actually seem to hit harder then the rages (this is a rather small sample pool of fights i'll admit) and if i had to call any of the hits massive it would be the 500 damage hits with a bastard sword. It makes you wonder if the warriors even need CD and Hamstring to be competitive with rages.

[CaineDeSoulis]

2 Bastard Swords tend to attack 4-5 times per round for 300-500 damage
the max I have seen from a non injury hit was 700 from a prey rampage

Two Handed Weapons tend to attack for 1-3 times per round doing 400-600 damage
The max i have seen from a non injury hit is 1250 from a Caine sunder armor.

The maximum damage obviously favor's the 2 hander but those shots are a very rare occurrence. maybe once a week Caine will bust out a 900+ shot.

When it comes to a 2handed rager in paticular they have almost no defense, are very slow, rely heavily on Last Stand, and normally do damage comparable to end game wars.

i'm also using Killshot with Caine meaning i get 1 accurate shot per round 2 if i last stand. which really isnt even an option with CD running around but it's the only way to do enough damage consistantly without being torn apart by CounterStrikeing theatrics relying on the Berserk Initiative boost.

[Cynaidh]

Well this thread has made me think that perhaps a 2handed offensive Arms would be much better offensive gladiator then a 2handed Rage could hope to be, and since the only thing I can do is give it a try I just picked up this slave:

str 83 Int 77 Agi 70 Stam 61 Size 80 Pres 66 Chi 65 ( i know stam sucks but i'll fix it with gear, 50/100/150 win achievement, and a few trophies)

And am going to do a simple set of skills that i think will make him be a better 2 handed warrior then a rage can be.
2 handed 10
Feint 10
Create Distance 10
Armour Movement 10
War Cry 10
Hamstring 10

Brute Force 10
Barreling 10
Blood Drunk 10
Last Stand 10

I'll let ya know in a few months how it turns out

[CaineDeSoulis]

I've got a glad doing the same thing actually lol

currently 9 2 handed
feint 5
CD 7
Armour 2
Grim 2
Death from above 2
War cry 5
hamstring 5
Athleticsim 4
Brute Force 8
Barreling 8
Last Stand 7
Blood Drunk 7

Can we All agree 2 handed Rages need help? and does anyone have potential solution? Increasing Attacks would definatley help but it could be over powering.

[Apoca1ypse]

i agree, increasing the number of attacks could be OP, but short of making create distance proc less against them and maybe less chance for an armor deflection against it, i dont know what could be done.