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  1. #1
    Elite Master Team Kaos's Avatar
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    Another Example of stacking

    SUMMIT's DREAMWOOD CUDGEL crashes down with tremendous power.


    SUMMIT looks to seriously damage ANGER RISING's armour! (-Sunder Armour-)
    SUMMIT spins into a tornado of death and destruction! (-Total Carnage-)
    Deft strike to the abdomen destroys several useful organs! (+138 Damage)
    • Summit's Attack Power: +5 (1 round)
    • Possible Serious Injury

    SUMMIT unleashes an unforgiving shot! (-Crippling Might-)
    Really now...tell me what a War has that comes remotely close to this in causing damage...the only reason Anger Rising survived is his massive armor (he is clad in the heaviest armor of anyone in the game) He did recieve a class 2 injury from this hit however.
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  2. #2
    Pit Master Dainoji's Avatar
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    He did 138 points of damage...obviously the stacking didn't do much. I'll add to this that a war gladiator shouldn't have anything that comes close to equaling the damage output of a rage gladiator, that is their specialty. Just like you won't find rage gladiators wearing full plate or blocking attacks on a consistent basis.
    Last edited by Dainoji; 07-11-2011 at 03:00 PM.
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  3. #3
    Elite Master Team Kaos's Avatar
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    His damage was mitigated by Anger Rising massive armor, otherwise if he hit anyone else it would have been obscene damage. He sports 100+ armor all over.
    The point wasn't that a War should match damage output, but that a War and Theatrics don't have stacking skills at all..while a Rage has about 5 or 6 that can stack at the same time causing ending damage or at least reduce a gladiator to near useless.
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  4. #4
    Pit Master Dainoji's Avatar
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    His damage was mitigated by Anger Rising massive armor, otherwise if he hit anyone else it would have been obscene damage. He sports 100+ armor all over.
    Exactly, your "special privilege" as a war gladiator being able to wear heavy armor mitigated the "rage stacking". So a rage manager has to dump points into 3 skills and you have to wear some armor to prevent the above example. Seems like a pretty good deal to me if I were a war glad.

    War's "stacking" works more indirectly I think. Heavy armor + create distance + tank/parry-x + hamstring, etc. They also have numerous skills that are always working for them the whole fight long and can't be blocked or prevented which makes them powerful.

    Theatrics being the hybrid class they are depends a lot on how they are built. Looking at the skill tree it is obvious a defensive build could be troublesome: shield + medium armor + second wind + show off + parry-x. Offensively you obviously have signature move and GV that have been the main reason for many a loss in the arena.

    If you are looking for the whirlwind of death and destruction recruit a rage gladiator because that just isn't what they teach in the other specialties.

    I'd stop looking at skills in a one for one manor and instead step back and examine the big picture because when I do that things seem to be pretty balanced IMO.
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  5. #5
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    YEa...,

    The more i se war the more i see how the heavy armor is unbalance. i personaly think that there one flaw to the heavy armor (that whit lvl are more and more op), so ill try it and tell about it again but that still a long shot...
    Lonely at the top but the view is great.

    Cordialy

    Dehodem

  6. #6
    Elite Master Team Kaos's Avatar
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    So we have all seen the mega damage inflicted upon Lords Fury by Kharn this morning. For those who wish for yet another gruesome slo-mo instant replay..here it is.

    KHARN runs frantically around LORDS FURY.
    KHARN leaps forward viciously pummeling LORDS FURY with his HEROIC GREAT AXE.
    LORDS FURY
    KHARN
    0/1406
    306/923
    87/96
    45/57
    Prone
    prone
    Attack Power
    -5
    Attack Power
    -5
    Number of Attacks
    34%

    LORDS FURY backs up a few inches as KHARN descends upon him! (-Shock & Awe-)
    Huge slash to the forehead removes LORDS FURY's scalp and the top portion of his skull...probably took a few memories as well! (+1072 Damage)
    Wow....looks even worse in slo-mo. However looks can be deceiving, Lords Fury got up and walked away on his own and turned down any medical assistance.

    Now, for the matter at hand...Titanic damage and just how is it being produced.

    Kharn is very strong but he is not the strongest, he is not anywhere near being overly big, he doesn't use a mega power weapon for his rank but does have high Chi and does have a pretty good skill set build...but still has lots of points to go to really top those skills off.
    So exactly where is the power coming from..and is it a bit to much power.

    Let's break down this beatdown.

    Moments before the hit from hell, we saw Lords Fury do ...THIS!

    LORDS FURY readies a strike from the ground.
    LORDS FURY raises his EPIC HALBERD overhead and viciously slices at KHARN.
    LORDS FURY
    KHARN
    822/1406
    306/923
    90/96

    49/57
    Prone
    prone
    Attack Power
    -5
    Attack Power
    -5
    Number of Attacks
    34%

    The blow to KHARN's tricep lands with magnificent force! (+386 Damage)
    • Possible Serious Injury

    KHARN's arm might never fully heal!!! *** Serious Injury ***
    KHARN pauses for a moment to catch his breath.
    KHARN tries to give up!!!
    So Kharn now has a serious injury to his arm which I believe in the instant reply we saw him using to hold his 2 handed weapon. We also see Kharn with just 1/3 of his health left and trying to give up, and he is actually beginning to get tired.

    We now move forward again to witness the powershot of the century to Lords Fury noggin.



    KHARN lets forth the roar of a lion and prepares to leave it all on the sands! (-Last Stand-)
    KHARN runs frantically around LORDS FURY.
    KHARN leaps forward viciously pummeling LORDS FURY with his HEROIC GREAT AXE.
    LORDS FURY
    KHARN
    0/1406
    306/923
    87/96
    45/57
    Prone
    prone
    Attack Power
    -5
    Attack Power
    -5
    Number of Attacks
    34%

    LORDS FURY backs up a few inches as KHARN descends upon him! (-Shock & Awe-)
    I don't think we need to witness the devastation again.

    So he did not hit an injury, he did not set off Rampage which increases damage, he did not get the skill of blood drunk neither since Fury still had more then half his health left as well as being nearly fresh as Mike Tyson after laying out Tony Tubbs.

    So did it come from Last Stand or Shock and Awe? Or both.......well Last Stand states that is does not increase power at all..just health and Endurance...so it can't be from that ( so we are told). So it must be coming from Shock and Awe..yes? We do not get to see what Kharns shock value is on Lords Fury since the hit ended the fight...but Kharns skill is not all to high in Shock and Awe..so I cannot believe it allows such damage to multiply from it.

    So as my piss and moan segment comes to end...I would love to know where this titanic power comes from in Rage's....I'm just not seeing how it generates at the end of the fights once Last Stand kicks in....how are the becoming doubly stronger then when they start fresh in a fight.

    And as Apoca1ypse mentions this was not done vs puny leather ..it did connect on medium armor.
    Last edited by Team Kaos; 08-18-2011 at 06:15 AM.
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  7. #7
    Actually its really simple mathematically, assuming a level 40+ greataxe high end damage output is about 400 and some change. Mine is so I'll assume his is and he is using kill shot AND his str is about 100.

    Now we dont have any set parameters to work with so I'll use my best guess and experience with rage gladiators to help. so lets assume kill shot is -x initiative +50% damage output lets also assume str adds 1 point to weapon damage. its a safe bet to say that a critical shot does more damage than a normal shot as well so another 50% for that so (400+100)*1.5*1.5 = +1125-32=+1093 this is pretty close for guessing on both weapon damage and str.

    Now as for last stand, it would make no sense at all if last stand only restored 10-100hp and 1-10 stamina. it would be completely useless past level 5. What it does is +10-100hp +1-10 stam + X initiative.

    Most 2 handed rage gladiators have setups where they run kill shot for tanks at least. I use it to make last stand more effective for me its Caine Switches to Strat 3 (Kill shot) Last stand, Kill shot attack. It may be +x initiative for the remainder of the round or fight even. I know if my strat switch waits until after my last stand attack I do ALOT less damage and usually lose.
    Last edited by CaineDeSoulis; 08-18-2011 at 07:16 AM.
    Stable: Zombie


    This is the Refer a Freind program link if you would like to be recruited by me please click this link. If you need any advice on gladiator management feel free to message me through the forums or my Stable "Zombie" in game and i will help as much as i can. Thank You ^_^

    Legends:
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    Prey: Undisputed Primus Champion
    Tourach:Primus Contender
    Sedris: Lord of Death

  8. #8
    Elite Master Team Kaos's Avatar
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    Love the explanation, but Kharn is nowhere near 100 strength mark, and even if he is running kill shot it should not be as amazingly effective vs a Bash tactic, do you really think I would attempt to tank vs a Rage?

    Crippling Might? Can't be the cause to increase damage that much since it is a passive skill working at all times. Heck Rampage doubled with Crippling Might only caused 500 damage.

    To put this perspective in how much a Rage is gaining from Last Stand in some unmentioned reasoning, Moon Child who Caine fought has 147 Strength and is hitting with 400+ 2handed weapon and can only manage sub 200 point hits after taking some damage even with Combat Instincts skill. At best he lands 300 damage hits to leather wearing opponents sometimes a little more.

    He's 147 strength...not a chump by any means. Kharn you ask....he's 60 under that...and dished out remarkable damage.

    And Last Stand should not be capable of increasing Strength or damage above what the gladiator started with..in fact it kicks in when the Rage is closer to dead then alive...so really he should still be weaker then the start of the match, unless it's giving off a +200% effect. And even if it did, by no means should it be capable of increasing damage beyond his starting point..it's just not in the skill.

    And so we again loop around to stacked skills of Brute Force, Last Stand, Overwhelming Presence, Crippling Might which work passively on top of an activated Rampage, Sunder and Shock and Awe...and if the opponent happens to be under 1/3 health tack on another passive stacker of Blood Drunk. I leave out weapon skill since it would makes sense to be neutralized by the opponents weapon skill. That is 4 and up to 5 passive skills stacking at the same time with a 5th or 6th tacking on when an active skill activates.

    Did I mention the initiative bonus Rage receives?

    I know...Solstice has been #1 forever...blah blah blah...Theatrics are ranked high and Rage's have a high rank of 4 followed up by a 13 spot. Not the point......point is stacking skills that much is just sillyness.

    Again..big picture here, not a Team Kaos vs the world scenario....
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  9. #9
    Firstly in the Moon Child/Caine fight I'm doing that kinda damage with berserk and 10 activity I've only used 1 kill shot in 3 fights since upgrading him.

    Secondly raise ANY weapon skill with moon child and you'll start seeing better hits.

    Battle Hardened,Create distance,Heavy Armour,Athleticism,Grim determination,War cry,Hamstring,Battle Prowess and Combat instincts. All of these things either limit your opponent, make your gladiator tougher to damage or harder to kill. Last Stand is an activated ability not passive.

    so skills that stack in rage Brute Force,Overwhelming Presence and Total Carnage. Conditionally stacked skills Blood Drunk, Devastating power and crippling might, Might and Power are throw away skills for a 2handed rage or anyone not using called shot they do nothing to a healthy taken care of gladiator. Blood drunk is unnecessary for a 2hander.

    Rage receives a bonus to initiative because they are offensive gladiators and only wear light armor War Cry Can negate *some* of that Armour movement can nagate *some* of that. even with both of those to 10 you shouldn't be faster than a decently built rage.

    Prey (rage) fought beta (war) today and threw 42 shots 14 connected for damage and 1 for status effect. 17 were blocked by armour 5 were blocked by create distance 4 of the attacks were *blocked* and 2 missed according to the fight log. and your seriously going to bust rage gladiators balls because you got hit with a massive shot (lucky). In the bigger picture here rage looks to be the MOST balanced type.

    Did I mention Crippling might Doesn't add damage it just has a *chance* to increase an injury. also Caine's been dead for that fight.
    Last edited by CaineDeSoulis; 08-18-2011 at 09:47 AM.
    Stable: Zombie


    This is the Refer a Freind program link if you would like to be recruited by me please click this link. If you need any advice on gladiator management feel free to message me through the forums or my Stable "Zombie" in game and i will help as much as i can. Thank You ^_^

    Legends:
    CaineDeSoulis: Primus Champion
    Prey: Undisputed Primus Champion
    Tourach:Primus Contender
    Sedris: Lord of Death

  10. #10
    Pit Master Dainoji's Avatar
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    Don't encourage him Caine, Kaos isn't happy unless he has something to bitch about and holds the top 5 spots...well at least he has one out of the two things he wants!

    You are spot on, if Rage was so over powered like Kaos wants to believe they would be crowding the arena ranks and holding all the top spots, which they are not. I find this part the most amusing:

    I know...Solstice has been #1 forever...blah blah blah...Theatrics are ranked high and Rage's have a high rank of 4 followed up by a 13 spot. Not the point.
    That's like saying "baby, I know you saw me with another women and caught me red handed, but that's not the point...let's ignore the facts and just know...I love you!"

    I understand his frustration though, with all the losses his team has been taking in the past month or so it must be pretty stressful at training practice these days.

    Hey Kaos, if they are so overpowered fire up your rage team again and prove it, get all 5 of your guys into the top spots.
    Stable: Pirate Booty
    Current Gladiators: Thunder Lips, Zippy Wunderbar
    Freed Gladiators: Chuck Norris

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