last stand

[Dainoji]

It makes sense that the majority of rage skills do more damage and even stack sometimes since that is pretty much all they are about. They have no defense to speak of and Thunder Lips's 50% win percentage is evidence of that. Theatrics glads can counter attack vs a rage and get a ton of attacks as well (Chuck Norris does this with good results), you'll just have to weather the storm a bit. War gets heavy armor which is a bitch to get through, sunder armor helps but what helps even more is the most recent fad of war glads stripping off their armor. By doing so it has allowed Thunder Lips to go back to daggers and get even more attacks. You might recall Thunder Lips used to go with daggers about a month ago but had to upgrade to broad swords because he couldn't do enough damage against the heavy armor to win fights consistently. Once many at the top started stripping down (even theatrics) to leather you voluntarily placed yourself in rage territory without the natural benefits of being a rager.

For the entire time this game has been around I think rage has had the short end of the stick and the rankings showed that for quite some time. Now as we are entering a new phase of the game with gladiators hitting the higher skills I think war and theatrics managers might have to change things up, the old tricks of the past might not work as well anymore. One thing I'll say for this game is you have to keep up with the times, strategies that work in the 10s-20s range might not work in the 30s-40s range and the 30s-40s tricks might not work in the 40s-50s. Add on top of that the achievement system and a gladiator can easily be tricked out differently each day which in my opinion is awesome. Keeps things fresh and prevents stagnation and gives players options. I thought I had a great winning combo with my new gear and achievement selections but Ormgar proved that wrong. I think what you might be seeing is the more powerful gladiators become the harder it is to make a one size beats all build and that is a good thing in my book.

It would be cool if we could have a separate fight strategy for when we get our challenges as that would make for another level of strategy. Hell, it would be cool if we could have a 2nd gear setup to be used with that strategy, that would open up all kinds of options and lessen the burden somewhat of trying to come up with a strategy that will work well against all types, but then again the restriction on options is what makes things more interesting and manageable.

I say give it some more time and that will tell all, it usually does.

[Team Kaos]

Theatrics glads can counter attack vs a rage and get a ton of attacks as well (Chuck Norris does this with good results), you'll just have to weather the storm a bit.

Yes, they counter but it's not a one for one counter..its survive the raging freaks 2,3 or 8 shots, get basically nearly killed and if you have enough agility and a small weapon you may be able to end the fight before the second rd, before the Rage of course gets the first swings in again. And for that reason there are so few good Theatrics fighters. Most managers give up Theatrics for that reason and play Rage's and War's.

It would be cool if we could have a separate fight strategy for when we get our challenges as that would make for another level of strategy. Hell, it would be cool if we could have a 2nd gear setup to be used with that strategy, that would open up all kinds of options and lessen the burden somewhat of trying to come up with a strategy that will work well against all types,

I could not agree any more..that would be the best upgrade the game has seen thus far by far....

[Dainoji]

Yes, they counter but it's not a one for one counter..its survive the raging freaks 2,3 or 8 shots, get basically nearly killed and if you have enough agility and a small weapon you may be able to end the fight before the second rd, before the Rage of course gets the first swings in again. And for that reason there are so few good Theatrics fighters. Most managers give up Theatrics for that reason and play Rage's and War's.

Well hold on there, the top throne has been occupied by a Theatrics glad for probably more than 80% since the beginning. I knocked one down only to lose it to a Theatrics glad. I hardly consider them to be at a disadvantage.

[Team Kaos]

Theatrics are very difficult to run, and take a ton of tweaking to figure out. Most people aren't even sure if a theatrics is offensive or defensive...and no doubt a theatrics has always gotten the short end of the stick despite the success of Solstice and Power Slave.

Just count them up through out the ladders...theatrics are the least run because they are so difficult to figure out and are so over powered and are prone to one or the other of the 2 completely different builds of Rage and War's.

I know it sounds weird hearing it from me with 2 of the top Theatrics for so long..but I watch pretty much all the other ladders as we go.

[Dainoji]

Hey everyone! Look at those underpowered-short-end-of-the-stick Theatrics guys go 1, 2, and 3 in the arena...again! Quick, someone call Nate and ask him to do something to make them even better!

[Apoca1ypse]

and this is with a base level spear found off the ground and being used to bash and then lunges while using a bashing tactic. Notice how Rampage stacked with total carnage on top of shock and awe and also stacks on top of as i mentioned all the other Rage stacking skills producing a hit about 150% bigger then his previous hit. Again with a base level spear not a purple maul.

kharn is just stacked str and chi in that match. if he's going to hit with a weapon, it's going to feel like it was by a truck. it was just a Semi this time instead of a B-Double like when he's using his maul :P i had a look through my fight log and saw this. i dont see a total carnage proc anywhere, which would make sense because it isnt trained

R O U N D 1
>> MOON CHILD SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> KHARN SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
MOON CHILD moves with unbridled energy.
MOON CHILD tries to pound KHARN with his MASTERWORK WAR HAMMER.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
826/919
826/919
1240/1240
1240/1240
55/57
55/57
74/75
74/75

MOON CHILD looks to hamstring KHARN! (-Hamstring-)
Awesome shot to the upper arm squashes nerves and veins on bone shards! (+93 Damage)
• Possible Disarm

KHARN screams in agony as the strike causes him to drop his weapon!
>> MOON CHILD SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
>> KHARN SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 4
R O U N D 2
KHARN finds an old LONG SPEAR laying on the ground.
KHARN hops hurriedly to action.
KHARN tries to injure his opponent with his LONG SPEAR.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
826/919
826/919
1072/1240
1072/1240
52/57
52/57
73/75
73/75
Number of Attacks
30%

MOON CHILD backs up a few inches as KHARN descends upon him! (-Shock & Awe-)
Stomach is torn open by the mighty blow! (+168 Damage)
• Attack Power: -5 (3 rounds)
• Possible Knock Down

MOON CHILD drops to the ground grabbing his wound!
KHARN dances quickly back and forth.
KHARN makes a vicious underhanded thrust with his LONG SPEAR.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
826/919
826/919
662/1240
662/1240
49/57
49/57
72/75
72/75
Number of Attacks
30%
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44

KHARN roars uncontrollably as he attacks! (-Rampage-)
Monstrous lunge into the upper arm creates a clean opening...blood spills to the ground in waterfall like fashion! (+410 Damage)
• Possible Knock Down
• Possible Serious Injury

MOON CHILD attempts to strike from the ground.
MOON CHILD whips around with his off hand.
MOON CHILD winds up before attacking.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
805/919
805/919
662/1240
662/1240
47/57
47/57
71/75
71/75
Number of Attacks
30%
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44

MOON CHILD aims for KHARN's head.
MOON CHILD's attack lands on KHARN's forearm inflicting weak wounds. (+21 Damage)
R O U N D 3
MOON CHILD yells in frustration as he looks for an opening to stand!
KHARN is no longer affected by Hamstring
KHARN leaps hurriedly to and fro.
KHARN brutally stabs at MOON CHILD with his LONG SPEAR.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
805/919
805/919
261/1240
261/1240
44/57
44/57
70/75
70/75
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44

Freakish hit to the back of the arm brings a shrill cry of pain and anguish that echoes throughout the arena! (+401 Damage)
>> KHARN SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 3
MOON CHILD tries to attack from the ground.
MOON CHILD whips his MASTERWORK WAR HAMMER toward KHARN with deadly accuracy.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
676/919
676/919
261/1240
261/1240
43/57
43/57
69/75
69/75
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44

The blow to KHARN's groin lands with mighty force! (+130 Damage)
• Possible Knock Down

KHARN screams as he hits the sand from the force of the blow!
MOON CHILD readies a strike from the ground.
MOON CHILD sneaks in an off handed strike.
MOON CHILD moves at KHARN with an unsteady shield bash.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
654/919
654/919
261/1240
261/1240
41/57
41/57
68/75
68/75
Prone
prone
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44

MOON CHILD goes for KHARN's elbow and connects with his BLOODSAND KITE SHIELD inflicting little wounds. (+22 Damage)
MOON CHILD readies a strike from the ground.
MOON CHILD makes a downward attack.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
568/919
568/919
261/1240
261/1240
40/57
40/57
67/75
67/75
Prone
prone
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44

MOON CHILD smiles after the cyclopean hit to KHARN's skull! (+86 Damage)
R O U N D 4
MOON CHILD regains his ground and stands!
KHARN yells in frustration as he looks for an opening to stand!
MOON CHILD is no longer affected by Shock & Awe
KHARN tries to attack from the ground.
KHARN sends his LONG SPEAR toward MOON CHILD with awesome force.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
568/919
568/919
22/1240
22/1240
37/57
37/57
65/75
65/75
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-5

Massive shot to MOON CHILD's hip...The grounds keepers are going to have to work hard to clean up this mess! (+240 Damage)
• Bleeding: 15 health per round
• Attack Power: -5 (2 rounds)

MOON CHILD whirls frantically around KHARN.
MOON CHILD decides to attack with the other hand.
MOON CHILD steps to the side and whips his BLOODSAND KITE SHIELD around with bloodthirsty precision.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
468/919
468/919
22/1240
22/1240
35/57
35/57
64/75
64/75
Prone
prone
Bleeding
15
Attack Power
-10

MOON CHILD smiles after the crippling hit to KHARN's upper leg! (+100 Damage)
• Attack Power: -5 (4 rounds)

MOON CHILD spins his MASTERWORK WAR HAMMER in front of him as he charges forward to attack.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
399/919
399/919
22/1240
22/1240
32/57
32/57
62/75
62/75
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-5
Bleeding
15
Attack Power
-10

The blow to KHARN's gut lands with mammoth force! (+69 Damage)
• Attack Power: -10 (3 rounds)

MOON CHILD looks to an off handed strike to deal damage.
MOON CHILD makes a rookie attack with his BLOODSAND KITE SHIELD.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
378/919
378/919
22/1240
22/1240
30/57
30/57
61/75
61/75
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-15
Bleeding
15
Attack Power
-10

Heavy shot to the knee causes a minor sprain. (+21 Damage)
R O U N D 5
KHARN regains his ground and stands!
KHARN seeks to poke his adversary.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
378/919
378/919
0/1240
0/1240
27/57
27/57
59/75
59/75
Attack Power
-15
Bleeding
15
Attack Power
-5

Shot to the head removes an eye along with part of the brain! (+360 Damage)
• Possible Knock Down
• Possible Serious Injury

MOON CHILD screams as he hits the sand from the force of the blow!
MOON CHILD's head may never be the same!!! *** Serious Injury ***
MOON CHILD begins to plea for his worthless life and after a moment of thought KHARN spits on the pitiful fool and walks away!
The fight lasted 51 seconds!

the other thing to note is that i am working on trying to get skills to 9th level with kharn (everything is minimum 7th). he has 9th level brute force and weapon skill for example, and has been 1 successful train away from weapon mastery for 2 weeks. i'm looking forward to total carnage, but i'm only on 80 trained skills so far.

Dainoji is right in that we're only starting to see the pointy end of what skills can do. rage is all about dealing damage, so of course we're going to see that. i see war glads rocking awesome armor in the upper levels and it's just irritating as hell to see armor negate my attacks even though i have brute force jacked up. hamstring also pisses me off, and i bet theatrics glads hate it even more. speaking of theatrics, i have a hard time hitting those fokkers, and if i cant hit them early, i'm up poop creek. disarm and stun are such a HUGE pain in the ass too. i dont think i've ever beaten chuck after he got me with an early disarm. you just got unlucky that i hit your weak spot for massive damage :P also, my theatrics eats same level wars because of GV. it's great. i cant ever get it up high enough vs a rager, but that's because of my lack of flexibility in his build. showoff can wreak havoc against a rager who's trying his hardest to play tag.

[Apoca1ypse]

Hey everyone! Look at those underpowered-short-end-of-the-stick Theatrics guys go 1, 2, and 3 in the arena...again! Quick, someone call Nate and ask him to do something to make them even better!

lol :P

i think it needs to be noted that you (kaos) threw heaps of trophies into maxing out your skills before everyone else. that gave you a huge advantage before (and your W/L with solstice reflects that) but the rest of us have been playing catchup slowly with a more optimised skill path and we are now the ones reaping the rewards. your armor is (and always has been) monstrous in it's stat buffs (eg 177 total agility on solstice right now) but they can only go so far now that all of us are around the same level and therefore access to the same gear.

i'm sure you'd find more favourable results with your gladiators if you made use of the unlearn function and worked on maxing out a few skills, but you can hardly cry foul legitimately about theatrics underperforming when your skills are not even fully optimised, gear is about equal, yet still sit at/near the top consistently.

edit - i see you have 95/100 skills so you're atleast doing a rework. you'll start to see your skills do a hell of alot more for you once you get them to 8 or 9.

[Team Kaos]

i think it needs to be noted that you (kaos) threw heaps of trophies into maxing out your skills before everyone else. that gave you a huge advantage before (and your W/L with solstice reflects that) but the rest of us have been playing catchup slowly with a more optimised skill path and we are now the ones reaping the rewards.

That's a bit off, the top 3 are just much older then all the other gladiators, so of course they maxed out, and I certainly was not even the first to max out. These guys have been running around since December, there are only a handful that are still active that old.
My reworking of skills is due to throwing a lot of single digit skills here and there....perhaps it was the way to go as since Solstice is just not the same. Is it the change in his skills or the opposing gladiators?

[Apoca1ypse]

i too started in december (though cycled through many glads) and you still were at the top. you were the earliest person i knew to run purples everywhere, along with the meatbags (whom i miss ) i know solstice was maxed fairly early on, as were some of the other stables, but it was predominantly your glads at the top.

the change i think is that more people (atleast when i look now compared to before) are starting to get 9/10 trains on more skills, so that's making things like huge hits get seen more often. also, higher level items compliment that nicely so big hits get bigger and there are more armor deflections etc. i highly doubt nate changed the way anything works other than how total parry got changed to tank, and was advertised by nate.


also, you have 7 points in finishing blow. while it's nice to rip off the head of your opponent, i'd much rather spend my points on something that gives me an edge in combat. i guess that one skill is all i could complain about in the theatrics tree because it is the only skill of any class that gives no advantage in the fight proper. i dont think anyone has pointed at that skill as being an issue, but maybe it is that that has led to your deep belief that theatrics are totally shat on by other classes, but it isnt really that bad as the other classes also have gimp skills (or atleast i came to that conclusion when i tried them)

rage for example has devastating power, which in my experiance was just wasted points as anyone who cared for their glads heals them before a fight (so no going into an fight with an area to get a bonus off immediately) and hitting the same spot was both not regular, nor gave too much extra damage. it also just about always required you to cause an injury because of the afforementioned fact that people heal religiously before fights.

war has master of arms, which is really only useful if you cannot kit your gladiator as you'd like, be it from pit fights or not being able to find the right weapon in your preferred class - blade, axe etc, or get disarmed by an opponent and pick up a grey which was going to be pretty crappy no matter how you cut it....

[Prinny]

Now here's a fine example of Last Stand's initiative Bullshit lol

COLOSSUS's leg may always be in pain!!! *** Serious Injury ***
COLOSSUS is bleeding very badly from several wounds!!!
COLOSSUS lets forth the roar of a lion and prepares to leave it all on the sands! (-Last Stand-)

COLOSSUS tries to attack from the ground.
COLOSSUS lashes out like an untamed creature and attacks.

COLOSSUS's face scowls as LAHARL's armour does its job!
COLOSSUS attempts to strike from the ground.
COLOSSUS charges LAHARL, his HEROIC GREAT AXE moving with thunderous power.
A crippling wound is opened on LAHARL's tricep! (+148 Damage)

LAHARL makes an off handed attack.
LAHARL executes a complex thrusting attack with his BLOODSAND BLADE.


This would be Normal exept for the fact that Colossus is hamstringed for 75% at this point and is wielding a HEROIC GREAT AXE which we all know has a speed of 1...How does Last Stand make a rage pull that off i wonder xD