Defensive Theatrics.

[Pit Lord]

The right words, but too general...
What to do with the specific question: How to defeat a War using shield?
The right answer in my opinion is: nohow.

I see only three ways for Theatrics vs War: Bleeding, Knockout and, perhaps, Entangle with a net. Any of these ways excludes a shield usage ...

Hi weaw. What is you stable? If you dont like to put on the forums you can pm me. My stable is crowdpleasers. You won't beat the defensive war if you use shield. Simply trow your shield for this fight and try to bleed the defensive war. You will need a lot of stamina to do it.

[Lunarion199]

Well, interesting thread; I'm no pro but I'd like to chip in with my experiences.

Imo surprise ending is useless against defensive wars although immense fun to see it trigger against other specialities. Knockout may prove effective against defensive non-Urk non-IronJaw wars. Feint may prove useful with slow, high-damage weapons. Game mechanics may change if balancing is required; I'm sure Nate keeps doing his statistical analysis. In the past the Theatrics could easily bleed out a war; also they had a Second Wind skill which refilled stamina. Today it may be difficult for them to face a defensive war but that's the fun.

I wish sotc was here to share his experiences too.

[weaw]

In the past the Theatrics could easily bleed out a war;

I'm afraid, this will not happen. We have some sort of specialities triangle in the Arms & Armour school: Rages are good vs Wars, Wars are good vs Theatrics, Theatrics are good vs Rages. There is no reason to break this pattern with own hands. Also, bleeding has some sort of inflation now. Because the Blood Bath skill adds few hundreds of bleeding with just one hit. This could lead to protection from bleeding rather than to increased bleeding.

I think, there is no problem like "Theatric vs War", but there is the problem with Tank fighting style: This style has no vulnerabilities by itself.
There are only four win/lose methods:
1. Drop health to 0;
2. Drop endurance to 0;
3. Fail a dice check at low health;
4. Knockout.
And the Tank style has not a vulnerability to any of these four. While Berserk style , for example, is the method to drop opponent's health by loosing Rage's endurance very fast.

[Stormcloak]

"How to defeat a War using shield?"

You can dip into the rage tree for a bit more hitting power. If you have feint going once a round, with called shot, dev power, and brute force/blood drunk you have quite a bit of hitting power. It's not purely defensive or purely theatrics, but you can still run crowdpleaser, and use a shield, and other assorted theatrics skills, and switch between parrying, counterattacking, and attacking under different conditions.

[weaw]

You can dip into the rage tree for a bit more hitting power.

And then smash a War with DevaSTTating PoWerRRR! Wielding a shield. Nice joke. :)

... other assorted theatrics skills ...

"Skill", but not "skills". 4 Rage skills +weapon+shield+feint+called shot+crowd pleaser -10 = -1.

I think, that build would have a stats like 1/3 even on HOL. :)

[Stormcloak]

Sure - with dipping into the rage tree (I didn't suggest running 4 rage skills), one could run, for example:
Blade/exotic, Shield
Dev Power, Brute Force
Feint, Called Shot
Crowdpleaser, Gratuitous Violence
Armour Movement, Hamstring

You have Armour Movement to help with initiative and absorbing attacks, Crowdpleaser to boost defense especially when using defensive fighting styles, Hamstring to lower your opponents attacks, and GV to get a bit of damage over time in for longer matches. Feint is a decent, frequently activated attack, Brute Force lowers your opponent's defense, and Called Shot and Dev Power combine nicely together to keep hitting the same area with a higher chance to, and the impact of, critical hit. You can run a defensively themed strategy (based around parry and counter-attack) and turn more aggressive when the right opportunities present themselves. Of course, this isn’t a build that will trump every other build, but I would be comfortable running it. If you want to have a glad stronger on one particular aspect, you have to find another that you're willing to compromise on.

[weaw]

Ok.
What exactly You suggested:
DP (Str, Size, Chi)
BF (Str, Size, Chi)
Shield (Str, Sta, Int)
Feint (Int, Agi)
CS (Int, Agi, Prs)
CP (Int, Agi, Prs)
GV (Int, Agi, Prs)
Hamstring (Str, Agi, Prs)
AM (Str, Agi, Size)

For me interest presented in the Primus or above. In these brackets we need to concentrate our stats around skills we used.
So, what the stats we need to stack in that build?
For me it's obvious that this build is not so good. Because we spreads of all stats. But Ok. I can suggest to exchange CP (Int, Agi, Prs) for Strength of the Crowd (SC) (Str, Agi, Prs) and then pick the Maces & Axes skill (Int, Str).
This choice allows to stack Str, then Agi. (And this choice exclude GV from our build :).

And now we can to return the question: "How to defeat a War using shield?"
We have a fight: Our theatrics wielding a mace and shield, an opponent wielding a mace and shield. An Opponent uses heaviest armor and tank stance. What do You expect from this fight?
The right answer is obvious again...

[Kreegan]

You won't drop an equally developed, well-managed tank with A&M if your gladiator is not a Rage. You'll be better off with Exotics and specifically a Falchion or Trident (less deflections, better criticals), bleeding focus, a lot of Stamina and careful endurance management. Aim for a limb which is not likely to be defended and try to force the tank to annoy the crowd so they can help your fighter. Yes, it won't work every time and yes, the tank will still have the upper hand when damage mitigation is considered but with some strategy tweaking you have a chance.

Also, don't try to max all attributes which you have skills for - that won't get you far and it's not needed. For a bleeder, you need mostly Agility and Presence, plus some Chi to ensure adequate criticals. Intellect shouldn't go above 100 - it makes zero difference, trust me, I had a gladiator with 180 Intellect before. Make sure you have enough Stamina to last more than 20 rounds with moderately active setup and distribute the rest as you see fit.

[Adoede]

Intellect shouldn't go above 100 - it makes zero difference, trust me, I had a gladiator with 180 Intellect before.

Not to hijack this thread, but I'm curious what benefits and weaknesses you saw with your glad at 180 int and why you think it is useless.

[Kreegan]

Not to hijack this thread, but I'm curious what benefits and weaknesses you saw with your glad at 180 int and why you think it is useless.

None. That Einstein still had situation when he would pick the wrong weapon from the ground, still wouldn't always use his skills at the appropriate time (I would expect at least to trigger one of them in the first round 100% of the time) and his overall fighting competency didn't seem to improve noticeably compared to the twice dumber gladiators in my stable.

@weaw, you can also consider Bloody Spectacle - that's extra Attack Power and bleeding.