k.o again :)

[Kreegan]

Brute Force and Total Carnage do not stack, otherwise there would be an increase of the hitting power of the gladiator who has them with every hit. They may be flat bonuses, they may be percentage bonuses but they don't add extra value with time.

Frankly I don't understand that comparison between Rampage, DFA and KO. The first two obviously don't win the fight if the dice rolls in your favour, can be deflected, can be disabled by Create Distance, can be taken out by knockdowns (the latter doesn't even apply to KO), have cooldowns. In other words - they are completely normal skills that help your gladiator fight better, not win more by default.

[Dainoji]

Frankly I don't understand how none of your gladiators have trained in Iron Jaw given your dislike of being knocked out. A solution to mitigate your problem lies before you in the open and you've completely ignored it. I know, it's because it doesn't stop it from happening 100% of the time right? The KO skill can be thought of as a super rampage and it being one level down on the tree that makes sense. And just like rampage or any high damaging skill, KO can be stopped. Every hit to the head is a potential KO, so anytime a glad stops a hit to the head whether it be via a parry, a magical block or a skill like create distance is a potential KO being stopped. I suspect Urks have a hidden defense against being knocked out as I rarely see it happen with Thunder Lips. If you really don't want to get knocked out, train iron jaw and choose Urk as your race.

[weaw]

Frankly I don't understand that comparison between Rampage, DFA and KO.

Yes, these skills of different types, categories etc. But there may be some reason to compare these skills. As a skills which associated with a win for each speciality.

I'll try to explain what i mean here:

The core of a (mysterious) balance is the equality of a wins quantity for each speciality.
At this point of view there is no difference how exactly the win happens.

We could imagine an abstract skill-tree with only one skill named, for example, "summon meteor": The gladiator have only 1 hp always. He has no armor or weapon. But if meteor triggered and happen, an opponent is dead.
And it's ok for balance, if the win percentage for this speciality will be same as for Rage, War, etc.

So, we may look at KO as it is just balance regulator.

But the problem is that we are playing PoW not only for a wins messages. We are playing not for seeing a good balance. But much more for a fights contents.

And the KO skill is bad. Because it has no fight content. Moreover, it breaks the content of the fight.
It's bad, also, because it too artificial like meteor summoning. And unlike every meteor.

[Kreegan]

Frankly I don't understand how none of your gladiators have trained in Iron Jaw given your dislike of being knocked out. A solution to mitigate your problem lies before you in the open and you've completely ignored it. I know, it's because it doesn't stop it from happening 100% of the time right? The KO skill can be thought of as a super rampage and it being one level down on the tree that makes sense. And just like rampage or any high damaging skill, KO can be stopped. Every hit to the head is a potential KO, so anytime a glad stops a hit to the head whether it be via a parry, a magical block or a skill like create distance is a potential KO being stopped. I suspect Urks have a hidden defense against being knocked out as I rarely see it happen with Thunder Lips. If you really don't want to get knocked out, train iron jaw and choose Urk as your race.

Oh, but I did. Twice. You should try it too. When my last gladiator who had it got knocked out 3 times out of 5 fights, I decided that I had enough of it.

[Ogornomus]

Oh, but I did. Twice. You should try it too. When my last gladiator who had it got knocked out 3 times out of 5 fights, I decided that I had enough of it.

3 of 5 is not realy representative of the effectiveness of Iron Jaw. You may had an extereme case of unluck. Just recently one of my gladiators K.O.-d two opponenets in a row, while having no training in Knockout and my theatric who is currently training it didn't do one since he started training it. So I could conclude that Knockout is not working.

[Flash]

Kreegan which stable belongs to you? I want to take a look at your issue.

[Kreegan]

3 of 5 is not realy representative of the effectiveness of Iron Jaw. You may had an extereme case of unluck. Just recently one of my gladiators K.O.-d two opponenets in a row, while having no training in Knockout and my theatric who is currently training it didn't do one since he started training it. So I could conclude that Knockout is not working.

No, you get me wrong - that was just the point where I completely lost patience with the skill. I had it on the said gladiator for months, before that I had it on another one for half an year. I've written a lot about Iron Jaw and how "nice" it is but, again, try it yourself.

@Flash, the stable is Hive but I'm not sure what you'll be looking for. My guys have nothing to hide though.

[Adoede]

It's not just the Knockout skill in the theatrics skill tree that dramatically turns a fight - Surprise Ending does that too. How many times has my 2H Rage had the fight easily in hand only to have a final rampage thrown back in his face. I've always wondered how it makes any sense that a Theatrics could throw back a Rampage for 2500+ damage when they are not capable of doing anywhere near that kind of damage themselves. But, I don't make the rules here

It seems Nate's vision for the theatrics skill tree IS for that dramatic 'fight-turnaround' type of ability. Along with that comes a much higher degree of inconsistency in fighting prowess. With my 2H Rage, I know exactly what they're going to do. With tanks, the same. With theatrics? I have no clue how their fights will turn out because of all the "disruptive" potential it has that might trigger...and might not. I actually see this as a weakness of the theatrics tree because they have a much harder time achieving the sort of consistency required to place atop the rankings after a month-long season.

If something better than knockout can be found, I'd be fine with that. But I'm not of the opinion that it is overpowered or that the theatrics skill tree is stronger than the other skill trees. I consider theatrics the hardest specialty to run atm because you can't win just with a good prospect and design - you need a finely tuned gear strategy too or you won't be consistent at all.

[Ogornomus]

No, you get me wrong - that was just the point where I completely lost patience with the skill. I had it on the said gladiator for months, before that I had it on another one for half an year. I've written a lot about Iron Jaw and how "nice" it is but, again, try it yourself.

I have 4 gladiators level 45+ and I haven't noticed any increase of getting K.O.-d at higher levels.
I don't even remember when was my gladiator last knocked out by a theatric.
Still I will try Iron Jaw on Black Degron as he struggels with stunns (doesn't get stunned often, but it also loses him the fight and is more frequent). I guess he has enough offence now and I can drop Called Shot

[Team Kaos]

It's not just the Knockout skill in the theatrics skill tree that dramatically turns a fight - Surprise Ending does that too. How many times has my 2H Rage had the fight easily in hand only to have a final rampage thrown back in his face. I've always wondered how it makes any sense that a Theatrics could throw back a Rampage for 2500+ damage when they are not capable of doing anywhere near that kind of damage themselves.

I think that is kinda the reason for such Theatrics skills, KO and Surprise Ending. A 2H Rage can end a fight on 2 or 3 swings..sometimes even just once well placed Rampage. A Theatrics needs many many hits along with being an uber Agility running build to out hit a 2H before being buried, Surprise Ending has a chance to turn a match as much as Rampage does. One is a devastating offensive skill, the other uses the opponents offense skill as a weapon against him. Surprise Ending is only as good as the result it reversed. I have seen a whole lot of SE reverse the 100 point glancing blow only to be buried by the 1200 pt Rampage that comes right after.
So in that result, Rampage was worth a whole lot more than Surprise Ending.
Yes, KO happens on the first couple hits once in a while but it also occurs near the end alot when the fight is pretty much over anyway.

And to just throw another tidbit in the arena. Lords Fury a Theatrics just got KO'd 3 times in a row by Rage's. Also, not every KO by a Theatrics is specifically due to the KO skill. Sometimes glads just KO the opponent cause they got a good roll.