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Thread: New Triggers

  1. #21
    Elite Master Kreegan's Avatar
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    There is quite a big difference between 2H Rages, mace-armed Rages and blades-armed Rages so "Opponent is Rage" is not a panacea.
    Yes, it was fairly monotonous prior to the changes of the skill tree, with 10 - Berserk - 10 being ubiquitous for Rages, but at the moment every 100/100 Rage can afford to go Berserk in nearly all cases without too much troubles. You run a berserking speed Rage with barely above 100 endurance placed 9th in Blood Gods.
    Still, Rages aren't really a concern as each Rage build is vulnerable to at least two other builds, the point is that in general the game needs a few triggers to make all who have comfortably set a couple of straight-forward "brute force" strategies and forgot about that section to actually implement some creativity in their game. There's too much reliance on simple "hit it until it drops" approaches in the end game.

  2. #22
    Master Sotc's Avatar
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    What's wrong with hitting with brute force until it drops? That's pretty much the whole rage profession in a nutshell.

    I'm not following your argument where you say that having this weapon detection trigger will force more creativity in strategies. Can you explain this further?

  3. #23
    Elite Master Kreegan's Avatar
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    I encourage you to read my posts again, I already said that I agree with the statement that weapon-based triggers may result in some balance issues, although maybe not incredibly severe.
    Also, "hitting until it drops" is somewhat appropriate for Rages (even though there are too many 100/100 Rages which just use Berserk almost all the time) but this phenomenon is well-spread among other builds as well and is most pronounced among those with 30-40 points in the Rage tree. The emphasis is obviously in critical hit spam, injuries, knockdowns, etc. which basically requires 1 main Spartaaaa strategy and 1 or 2 secondary strategies, maybe to cover low health or endurance. In such a situation, a trigger like "I have serious injury" will be pretty useful for Wars (tank when appropriate) and a trigger like "The opponent hits me more often / I hit the opponent more often" will help War and Theatrics with switching between defensive and offensive stances, eventually resulting in the opponent burning more endurance than usual or exposing him/herself when the time is right for you. There can be many combinations in theory.

  4. #24
    Stable Servant JerimyA5's Avatar
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    My main thought on triggers is simply that it would be nice to have a second set of triggers for the new content such as conquest and gauntlet. A second set for when we're fighting more than one enemy seems like it could be a good idea to me. Not so much for when we're running the new stuff ourselves, as one could simply change their strat before starting, as I do. But it would be helpful for anyone else using the glad as part of their team.
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  5. #25
    Elite Master Adoede's Avatar
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    Reviving an old thread.

    I've noticed that there are a few fighting styles that I have a hard time setting tactics against because there isn't a good way to trigger against them at the moment. In particular, Power-theatrics and Offensive Wars. There's currently nothing to allow us to trigger a different strategy vs. counter-attacking power-theatrics at all in the game. Likewise against offensive wars, they require a different strategy than other offensive glads because of their armor and defense.

    Could we add a new set of triggers for
    "Opponent is using an offensive style" (Lunge, Slash, Bash, Berserk, Kill Shot)
    "Opponent is using a defensive style" (Parry X, Counterattack, Tank)

    That seems broad enough so as not to nerf any particular builds unfairly, yet useful for the way I want to use tactics. With the proliferation of Power-theatrics and War glads of varying types in Blood gods, this would help us develop more effective strategies to help counter each type. (Though trigger-wars might be an issue)

    If not these, then perhaps Nate could think up some that would address this lacuna more effectively. I know what I want my glads to do against these types, but I can't set them up to carry out those strategies without sabotaging my other strategies.
    Adoede | Tevrosin

  6. #26
    Elite Master Kreegan's Avatar
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    There are actually many styles which can't be countered precisely with the current triggers but that's not necessarily bad thing in all cases. The armour-piercing speed plague in Blood Gods doesn't need any extra buffs or helping hands, it's already performing far too well. Besides, there are... how many... 5 or so Power Theatrics in the entire bracket, against more than two dozens or so speed builds.

    That said, I'm not against generic triggers which can backfire if they are overly relied on.

  7. #27
    Pit Master Apoca1ypse's Avatar
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    The fight triggers are fine as they are. If you allowed strategies based on opposing abilities (counterattack, berserk etc) you would end up with gladiators just in a cyclic change of strats instead of swinging.

    Also, if you add too much flexibility or scope to a set and forget strategy, you would eventually end up with someone making a strategy/build setup that will beat everything. I'm sure many of you were already frustrated with Arrrrrghpirates domination and 85-90% w/l for a few seasons. Giving the option to have someone go 95% w/l with a set and forget strategy is unacceptable in my opinion.

    If you really want to have a better matchup vs particular strategies, learn your fight que or check who your opponent is for the next BG fight, and change your strats between the fights to that they are tuned towards the gladiator you are about to face.
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  8. #28
    Elite Master Adoede's Avatar
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    Hey Kreegan - Arkal is quite a handful for my speed builds

    It's not about looking for advantages so much as that minor annoyance that I can't set my glads up to use the strategies I want them to use against certain opponents. They might still lose 90% of the time against said opponents, but at least it would be due to my poor strategies rather than because of a structural issue in the game. I've been able to employ the strategy I've wanted against all opponents except Power Theatrics and sometimes against Offensive Wars, so I'm not sure which other styles you've run into that you can't properly strategize for.

    As for the speed theatrics performance in BG - They're not nearly as dominant as they used to be. In fact, there's not a single one in the elite ranks anymore. Those ranks are now dominated by Rages and Wars with nary a Theatrics to be found. Not that I'm complaining - I rather enjoy this new order with the 2H Rages finally becoming as dominant as we all imagine them to be - nothing more satisfying than reading a fight where your brute has just pulverized the opponent for 2000+ damage in a single hit!
    Adoede | Tevrosin

  9. #29
    Elite Master Adoede's Avatar
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    Apoc - I actually do switch my strats for my opponents in my fight queue already when I'm the one initiating the fight - what bugs me is that I can't properly prepare my glads against the challenges they receive from other glads throughout the day. This is a non-issue with my Rages because their strategies are pretty much the same against all opponents. It's my other glads that sometimes end up fighting with an unoptimized strategy against an opponent they can't trigger against.

    At the end of the day, it's not a big deal and if nothing changes, that's ok. But I figure Nate would rather know about on-the-ground gameplay issues like these rather than not know about them. I'm sure he can eventually come up with a better fix as well.
    Last edited by Adoede; 07-10-2014 at 06:46 AM.
    Adoede | Tevrosin

  10. #30
    Pit Master Apoca1ypse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoede View Post
    Apoc - I actually do switch my strats for my opponents in my fight queue already when I'm the one initiating the fight - what bugs me is that I can't properly prepare my glads against the challenges they receive from other glads throughout the day. This is a non-issue with my Rages because their strategies are pretty much the same against all opponents. It's my other glads that sometimes end up fighting with an unoptimized strategy against an opponent they can't trigger against.
    I know what you mean, but I still think it would be unfair if there was the possibility to beat every build with a set and forget strategy. My point about learning fight ques was that it gives you at least some ability to beat otherwise very tough match ups.

    If you want perfect tweaking ability for match ups, that is what the Blood Games are for. Arena is more of a "take on all comers"
    Do you want to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women? Then follow the link below!

    >>Player Guide Compendium<<

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