Regarding the decreased trophy drop rate

[Zangi]

Telling people to leave is the best way to deal with dissent... amirite?

Personally, I'm quite unhappy that killing other gladiators gives pretty cruddy rewards now... I don't mind the other changes, like arena challenges and what-not never dropping trophies...
And well, progress... getting the permanent stable upgrades is now months away...

Yes, those 2 things are my biggest gripes about the unannounced changes to trophies.

[Kreegan]

Challenge accepted. Kholek is ~60 atm and in lvl 45 greens. I'll see if he can make top 20 in blues once he is lvl 50 (though i hah intended to recycle Kharn's purple gear onto him....)

That's a Rage, right? He might be able to get there, as discussed already the Rage is far less dependent on his equipment than the War and the Theatrics. But you'll probably have issues keeping him in top 30 for more than a few fights.

but dont come on here and claim the Developers lied to you.

I don't. My rant is mostly about the backdoor introduction of these changes, not about the fact that they were introduced in general. But anyway, after revealing myself as an evil enemy to the devs, progress, beers (and bears) and everything that any honest, law-abiding citizen holds dear, I think I'll crawl back into the shadows and try to adapt to the changes for a month or so. I said what I wanted to anyway, the interpretations are yours to give.

[Apoca1ypse]

That's a Rage, right?

Yes, the all rage stable runs Kholek as a rage :3

I don't. My rant is mostly about the backdoor introduction of these changes, not about the fact that they were introduced in general.

Ok that's fine. I share the sentiment and wish it had been announced. Maybe define the grievance a little better in the OP by saying "man, I wish the changes to trophies had been announced" so that some of us zealous fanboys (dain :P) dont overreact.

[CaineDeSoulis]

@Zangi Yea I'm not all that excited about the reduction either but I can see both sides of the issue rather than one side of it. I'm also taking into account that Conquests are just around the corner and other new features are on the way shortly. Would I like to Receive a trophy for every kill rather than a fight token or gear? Absolutely. but then the defensive gladiators will kinda be gettin screwed. now at least they have a shot at earning a trophy for winning. its not likely nor is it often but it is good for them.

I'll go ahead and quote Kreegan


Kreegan
"However, the current backdoor approach is a bit... well, sly in a bad way."

"On the other hand a honest request for funding will probably extract some money from my account."

"You may not understand it, but there are people who actually care about honesty."

"My rant is mostly about the backdoor introduction of these changes"


Nice and Polite with a CLEARLY venomous message.

[CaineDeSoulis]

6-04-2012
Nate~
ARENA

Arena Gate fights sometimes reward gladiators with exciting prizes for a win and always for a kill.

but it was announced >.<

[Kreegan]

I CLEARLY don't understand what are you trying to prove. How do you suggest I express my disapproval of something - with an encrypted message, by posting pictures of ponnies, by starting an anonimous campaign on the Internet against unannounced game changes? If you don't like politeness, I can be impolite but the forum etiquette forbids it and so far I've found no reason why I should go on a "clear" offensive. You can find some "venom" on your side of the barricade too (refer to a particular text wall on the previous page) but I guess it's convenient to be selective. You are looking for an insult where there is none and besides the devs can say for themselves if they somehow got offended by this thread, hence your advocating is uncalled-for. So, again, what is your aim exactly?

but it was announced

It was announced that something will happen, quite literally - what that something is became clear after the update went live. Getting some random prize green item (occasionally blue, maybe even purple once a month) instead of the trophies is hardly the same as getting the prize and the trophies. So the "instead" part was missing from the announcement, as well as the decreased trophy drop for the arena challenges.

[CaineDeSoulis]

Ive literally had gear thrown at me since this update. 4-5 purples and I Dont even know how many blue's and greens. Prey killed someone today got 1300 gold + a trophy + a purple item and it was +5 str +12 agi arm piece. Despite the fact this update changed the arena challenges so that beating them throws a blue or purple instead of a green ( yea beat this tier 6 about a week ago and received 4 T and a green leather leg with ZERO stat boosts). Great for me all my dudes are geared up anyway. Despite that your going to say this update hinders new players.

And ya'know what, thats not even the point thats irritating me. Your in a public forum calling the owners/developers Dishonest and that just aint right. If it were a PM or on the chat server different story. Weve all griped about numerous changes and mechanics. and I'll admit I'm usually the first one to complain about Trophies hell me and Dain have went back and forth on it on more than one occasion.

[Kid Arcane]

I haven't posted much here, though I drop in periodically (once a month or so) to lurk and see if I can pick up anything useful. The latest changes have prompted some head-scratching, so I checked the forums this morning and saw Kreegan's post and all the chatter that came from it. Surprising, really, that there's so much debate about it. He (she?) seems to have put it out there succinctly and accurately. In effect, the new changes work against anyone who isn't paying for this game, particularly anyone at the higher levels of play. Newer players are going to lose a lot unless they pony up some coin. I don't think this is simply opinion; my playing experiences, particularly the results I've gotten since the new changes went into effect, bear this "theory" out. I strongly feel that anyone who thinks that non-paying players are unaffected by these changes (they are, in fact, being affected in a negative way) is deluding themselves... or else not thinking it through completely.

My trophy income has also almost completely disappeared. My gold level has dropped quite a bit as well... I can't afford to buy new equipment as often; it seems like the bills for the automatic repairs and healings have gone up. Also, I can NOT afford to maintain the stable memberships anymore, so when this one runs out I'll probably stop playing. The silly comparisons being made are pointless. I too used to rely on trophies earned in the arena and tavern to keep paying the bills. However, the drop rate has significantly fallen off, so this method of paying for stable memberships, better armor, and auto-anything is simply not feasible anymore. That ship has sailed; we shouldn't be using the 'old' data to compare it to the new.

It IS a fun game and all, and I can understand (and accept) that paying customers should be able to dominate Primus... and they do. That's okay -- they can afford to fill their achievement slots, buy purple equipment, and rearrange their skill slots as needed for their strategies... I can see that and I don't have a problem with that. Many seem to get upset when the money aspect is raised, but that's silly. Kreegan isn't saying that the game should be free, and neither am I. I'm grateful for the chance to play PoW; it's a lot of fun and quite addicting.

However, I don't intend to throw my Rage fighter into the Bloodgames because I know it's a pointless exercise... Calm Fury used to beat a lot of fighters regularly (killing some repeatedly) but now she wins maybe 5 or 6 times out of ten... and the change in gear and the fact that she's never used more than two achievement slots has to have a lot to do with it.

Kreegan: Since the last update my trophy income has almost completely disappeared. Yeah, mine too. The conclusion from this is that I won't be able to play much longer, because my handicap competing against paying customers is going to be insurmountable.

Cutting to the chase: I don't have a problem with the game costing money. I prefer the free version (personal reasons) but I understand why paying customers would have better options and opportunities vs. non-paying customers. That's okay. It was always true at the higher levels of play, and now it's true throughout the game, with the possible exception of the Black Market pit fights. It means some players will be forced to drop the game or else keep playing a losing proposition, which doesn't sit well with most people. No hard feelings about that; it is what it is.

I don't make many comments here but I do want to point out this time that most of what Kreegan said is true, albiet very unpopular (according to most replies, and to my surprise.) There wasn't any bashing of the developers. There weren't any insults or accusations being hurled about. Simply put, the latest changes in the game work against the "play for free" manager. Okay. That makes sense; it's silly and delusional to think otherwise. You might sneak a win here and there against a better-equipped fighter from some rookie's stable, but against anyone who's been managing a team for at least six months, you're going to be toast 9 out of 10 times. I'm amazed that anyone would want to argue about that.

Given that I play for free and my armor and weapons aren't the best, and I rarely use more than two slots (tried it for a while once with one fighter but just couldn't afford it) I do pretty well in this game. Or I used to. Now it's just a downhill slope, and a slippery downhill slope at that. I don't know if I'll hang around for much longer, or what the future holds in any aspect of my life, for that matter, but it's been fun playing this game. I'm sure I'll drop by from time to time, should I decide to drop it. It's very addicting. Losing all the time, not so much, but the game HAS BEEN very addicting.

Where all the arguing and costs of beer and tickets (do people really throw away that much money on that stuff?) came from, I don't know. Kreegan, I agree with 90% of what you had to say. The only thing I'd have to disagree with is the idea that the game SHOULD be a level playing field between the free and the paying customers. Unless there was a special pit arena where Champions fought other Champions with gray armor/weapons (only) and using no more than two achievement slots, you're not going to see that sort of equality. That's okay. If I were paying for the privilege of playing a game, I would expect some perks vs. those pesky freeloaders who I compete against. I can see that angle and I have to agree with it, though I sympathize with the freeloaders because, hey, I AM one!! Maybe we'll get a separate arena just for us small fry. In the meantime, as I said: It is what it is.

And that's my 2¢.

[GorbagGutripper]

Kudos Kid Arcane.....my thoughts exactly. I've played this game since it started, with a nice 6-month?? hiatus, but I came back, because, hey it is addicting (sorta like Bloodpit is, and that game has always been free). I remember waiting a year or more after applying at the old Pathocrom site for it to go live. I'm not really sure why the Trophy drop for a kill has gone away, as I would rather have the trophy than a few K gold or a fight token (big whoop) , BUT I have managed to get three fricking nifty purple items in the last few days, soooooooo that right there is 105 trophies. And the fact you can get blue items now (hey before they cost too many trophies compared to the purple I think). I can also see where a paying customer SHOULD get a benefit over a free-loader like myself...after all I have the loot, but haven't forked it out to buy some trophies ( i like to save my loot for Total Wars, Diablos, Blood Bowls etc). I keep on kicking myself telling myself I should but just never get around to it. Of course, this last month I spent over 100 trophies trying to get a decent gladiator (nothing like spending 10 of them and getting one guy that was 950 or so gold...I have NEVER seen any slaves over 1k and once I spent 30 trophies looking....) so I have had to settle on 975 gold losers. My first batch of gladiators did well until they achieved level 50 (well 2 of them are still over 50%) but I sorta messed them up because I kept all their skills in their Specialties....at least my newer guys that arent theatrics are going for some type of signature move. Ok appears I am rambling.

I only play with two achievement slots and my guys generally do good. So yes, it will stink that the trophies aren't falling off of trees now, but with them falling in the tavern (ok I have seen that decrease as well) you can still get a good 40 or so a month--and perhaps you won't get that particular purple item you are looking for, but chances are you will get a few a week. Heck even one is worth it. The only thing I am going to miss is forking out trophies for the Memberships---so yes you will not be getting 40 or so trains a day now, perhaps 15 or so. But when you gain levels that quickly, you find yourself taking on tougher opponents anyway. Oh and Nate will always answer your questions if you email him--might take awhile, as he probably gets a gazillion a day, but he will give you an answer. So Kreegan, perhaps you should have sent him a message and posted his reply before voicing your complaints.

[amarti01]

First of all, I want to say that I am NEW here- I only started Pit of War two days ago. I think that I can contribute to this topic as a new player (since I get the impression that all of you commenting so far are already at the very top rankings with a lot of your gladiators/stables). However, I also want to mention that I know I might be wrong about some things, since I'm new. So instead of trolling/raging against me for my views & opinions, why don't you kindly correct me (no need to get defensive in your replies or increase your risk of heart attack down the road), and most importantly keep in mind that if I feel these ways, then most likely so do most of the other newbies. Finally, I will put my suggestions at the end, because otherwise what's the point, right?

I believe that the change in trophies was mostly directed at getting money from the newcomers, not the veteran players such as yourselves. This is obvious to me, because you all already have all your stable upgrades, and all or most of your purple gear. As somebody pointed out earlier in the thread, all you guys need now is ~3 trophies/day which is possible for you guys. Newcomers, on the other hand, also need to buy stable upgrades, gear, and skills (I know nobody brought up skills yet, but I'll mention why it stands out to me

I mention skills, because without trophies, they LOOK like they'll take 12-24 months to max out. Notice I said 'LOOK like'... Being brand new to the game, I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get, and I'm sure all other newbies would agree with me. It's important to remember that you all had trophies to level/unlevel your skills in your experiments with character builds. And it's also important to remember that this game has a steep learning curve. You all have learned a lot of knowledge and experience in experimenting with multiple gladiators, and now new players won't be able to afford doing that. This means all new players will be limited to the formulas that others have already posted in the forums. Does anybody really want that??

I suspect that either you all forgot the costs of stable upgrades or they were changed. Because as of now, it costs me 30 trophies to upgrade my Barracks from lvl1 to lvl2 (out of 4). It costs 30T to upgrade my vault the first time (it doesn't say how many upgrades are possible, so I'm assuming it's about 4-5). It costs 95T to upgrade my doctor the FIRST TIME (out of 3 upgrades). Seeing as how skills and the few stable upgrades I could do without trophies increased exponentially in cost, I have no choice but to assume that even at 3 trophies per day, it would take me over a year just to finish upgrading my stables (and that's if I don't spend any trophies anywhere else)!! Again, I have to admit that I'm a noob, so maybe the stable upgrade trophy costs don't increase exponentially, but that's the impression that I get and I'm sure all noobs do. Also, I've only been getting 1 trophy per day, I don't know how you all get them (Maybe it's because the rewards/prizes get better as you fight harder opponents?? You ever consider that could be the case also)? Anyway, at my current rate, it would take me about 5 and a half months just to get the first upgrade of barracks, vault, and doctor! I'm willing to bet none of you would have been willing to wait that long just for those upgrades. You might say you could now, now that you love the game so much and have invested so much into it, but probably not when you first were starting. I know the thought of sacrificing spending no trophies for that long for just those measly first stable upgrades makes me cringe...

I know you all probably know some insane builds through your knowledge and experience, as I mentioned earlier, but I don't know any. I've even read every forum post in the classes section, and almost done with all the other forum posts. No noobs ever already know more than the 2 year, top ranked players. And then I have green gear, and have gotten my first blue gear. I see the difference. It's a huge difference! Seeing the difference (and I'm only Rage btw), I can't see how any of you could possibly convince me that I could beat purple gear veterans of the game as a noob with just green gear. Even if there was a way, I'm sure it would have to be so specific and nitpicky that you would have to tell me everything to do in detail. And again, do you really want every newcoming player to be exact carbon copies of each other??? Besides, you all would quickly figure out how to counter it anyway and/or the build would get nerfed....

Some of you said, well the solution is simple then- PAY. First off, this is obviously going to prevent all ages under 18 from playing, as they don't have credit cards anyway. I don't know how much it costs/trophy, and I don't care. The simple reason why most newcomers are going to completely abandon this game is they'll THINK their money could be better spent elsewhere. Notice I said 'they'll THINK'... You all have come to love this game more and more over time the more you invest your time and emotion into it, so for you, yeah it's worth spending money continuously. But a newcomer hasn't developed an attachment to the game yet. It took me all of 5 minutes to realize that I'll either have to spend hundreds of dollars, or years just to get the stable upgrades, gear, and skills. For somebody who hasn't come to love the game, IT'S NOT WORTH IT. 99.99% of newcomers will quit, before they even really start. Even for people who aren't against spending money, they're going to think, "Well, if I HAVE to spend money to play a game, I might as well look for a better game I'll enjoy more first before I start throwing weeks of pay at this one."

Before anybody rants on me about being a tightwad or whatever, I have spent hundreds on games before. But after playing only the so-called "free-to-play" games for about 8 years now, I have noticed a pattern... Anytime a game forces its players to "pay to win", they fail within a year. A few people pay to win > most of the playerbase drops out > the company adds new content to pay for > more playerbase drops out > cycle continues until everybody is too angry at the devs to continue. That's why I no longer pay for games that FORCE you to pay to be top tie (or force you to spend years upon years to get there). I have paid to win before, and it's not worth it to me, since the playerbase drops off so fast.

Finally, here's my suggestion, the whole point
Redirect who pays from the newcomers to the veterans. Newcomers aren't willing to pay for something they haven't even come to enjoy yet, but the hardcores are (I think everybody in this thread already admitted they would pay). This will keep the newcomers from being turned off and give them enough time to start loving the game to the point that they will also pay. Do this by returning the trophy drops (but lowering the drop rate from what it was originally), and adding a new type of token. The new type of token will be what has to be paid for, but will give different gear (better gear or new gear [are the ring slots or whatever next to the legs unlocked yet?]). Maybe this could be the Conquest section (unless that's already unlocked. Then maybe a new arena like the Coliseum or something. These are just spitball ideas, I'm sure all of you could think of something better since I don't even know what the top players want/need at your level). The point is, it could be anything, more skills than 100, pay to unlock a new trigger, whatever...

Play with my suggestion in your heads for a while before deciding about it. And remember, even games like WoW give newcomers free trials for a month or up to a level before they make you pay. They're doing the same thing I recommended- let the newbies learn to get addicted to the game before making them pay. Otherwise, they all get scared away

All this being said, I personally won't be playing anymore. I couldn't stop thinking about anything other than Pit of War the last two days since I joined (I was already planning on quitting all other games to focus on just this one), but it's not worth waiting the years that I'm predicting it will take (especially since I'm also predicting the game will fail in a year or even faster if it doesn't change making newbies pay from the start to finish). The only reason I stayed two whole days is because it said somewhere (in the tutorial I think) that kills grant trophies, and I was planning builds with Crowd Pleaser and/or Finishing Blow from the Theatrics tree to get the trophies I needed. But after a couple kills with no trophies, I looked for and found this thread (to see why I didn't get them). I'll probably check back every month or so, and see if it's changed. Otherwise, I won't be returning.

Best of luck to you all.