Achievements and "Pay-To-Win"

[Narol]

Now that I have reached the elite in Primus , I realize that buying and using well ALL the achievements slots makes a big difference in the tight battles at the top.

The problem is that the last 4 slots can only be bought for trophees, and even if 6 trophees a week doesn't seems much, in the end it's very costy.

Let's do the math for 4 weeks and a complete stable with 5 gladiators :

5 gladiators x 4 slots x 4 weeks x 6 trophees = 480 trophees by team a month !

Add the champions 4 pack that is a must, that means a regular cost to stay competitive of 530 trophees a month...

Even if you buy trophees in bulk, that means 53 $ a month if you have a full team of elite warriors, and 689 $ a year !


In my opinion, that really turns PoW into a "Pay-To-Win" game and that's gonna scare away many potential players once they realize, which is a pity.

Let's be realistic, very few players will accept to pay 689 $ a year just to have a chance to win in an internet game, even such a deep and addictive great game as PoW...

My suggestion is to make all achievement slots available for gold, that would encourage players to spend their gold wisely in game and fix instantly that "pay-to-Win" problem.

With all the recent changes, many new useful options have been introduced that can only be paid by trophees (memberships, auto-repair, auto-heal, auto-quests, etc...), so people will still have many incentives to buys trophees but those are confort features that doesn't give an unfair advantage in the game to the biggest spenders.

It's up to you, Nate and Eric, to decide if you want to give PoW a chance to become a popular game with a huge player base or to keep it a playground for a very small group of rich players who can afford to pay for all the boosts...

[Apoca1ypse]

I would like achievements to go to gold too as it is attainable to everyone, though leaving trophies as a shortcut to using them too.

there are plenty of other things that are now trophy only, and imo the newer ones like auto repair/heal and memberships should stay as trophy only. they're convenient, but do not give a direct advantage. paying for convenience is something i'm fine with. achievements however give a huge, direct benefit that should be available to both paying and free-to-play managers.

Sure, some people who are just scraping through on their gold, or leaking like a sieve will still struggle, but at least having an option is cool. that, and I think it would prompt me to finally get lvl 6 armory for both convenience, and the bonus of gold becoming much more relevant.

[CaineDeSoulis]

i only very rarely have used all 6 slots. prey has never used more than 2 for example. Tourach occasionally uses 3 Caine use's all 6 depending on how many kill's sedris gets lol.

[Narol]

That's exactly proving my point, Caine being the only one of your glads in the top 10 of Primus...

[Cynaidh]

Achievement slots does seem to be the odd ball, the one thing where you do pay for a serious advantage with trophies, i mean yes you buy purple gear with trophies, but a person who saves up as a glad is leveling to 50 can get past that with the trophies from arena challenges and finding them in tavern fights I've never added up how many you get from 1-50 in arena challenges but i bet its close to enough to outfit a glad in level 50 purples at 50 when your stuck on apoc, but keep achievements unlocked.... kinda a hard hitter for a free to play person due to the volume of trophies needed. I personally think it would be better for the game if they where all gold based, really its the only thing that is different like this.

[Dainoji]

Now that I have reached the elite in Primus , I realize that buying and using well ALL the achievements slots makes a big difference in the tight battles at the top.

Sometimes, not always.

The problem is that the last 4 slots can only be bought for trophees, and even if 6 trophees a week doesn't seems much, in the end it's very costy.

Then don't use them, you don't have to.

5 gladiators x 4 slots x 4 weeks x 6 trophees = 480 trophees by team a month !

Your choice to run 5 gladiators (10 if your signature is correct), drop down to fewer gladiators if you want to also use all the slots.

Add the champions 4 pack that is a must, that means a regular cost to stay competitive of 530 trophees a month...

Hmmm, lots of things wrong with this statement. Firstly, no, the 4 pack is not a must and no, it doesn't cost 530 trophies a month to stay competitive.

In my opinion, that really turns PoW into a "Pay-To-Win" game and that's gonna scare away many potential players once they realize, which is a pity.

Let's be realistic, very few players will accept to pay 689 $ a year just to have a chance to win in an internet game, even such a deep and addictive great game as PoW...

My suggestion is to make all achievement slots available for gold, that would encourage players to spend their gold wisely in game and fix instantly that "pay-to-Win" problem.

With all the recent changes, many new useful options have been introduced that can only be paid by trophees (memberships, auto-repair, auto-heal, auto-quests, etc...), so people will still have many incentives to buys trophees but those are confort features that doesn't give an unfair advantage in the game to the biggest spenders.

It's up to you, Nate and Eric, to decide if you want to give PoW a chance to become a popular game with a huge player base or to keep it a playground for a very small group of rich players who can afford to pay for all the boosts...

This topic has been beat to death already on the boards, the main points are you as a player have the ability to spend as much or as little as you want. If you want to use all the shiny toys, then run fewer gladiators until your budget allows for more. Just because your gladiators don't win a fight doesn't mean your opponent is spending more money than you although that is certainly the easy scapegoat. If your gladiators aren't winning it is more likely they have more work to do on their build and strategies.

I'll add that having all the shiny toys does not mean you'll beat a gladiator without them either. Thunder Lips has been using all 6 for the past month and guess where he is ranked? Yeah, not in the top 10.

[CaineDeSoulis]

I kinda Agree With Dain here. there the most expensive short term investment hands down for a stable of 5. but not completely necessary to compete. it would be nice if it was more accessible but not all that necessary.

[Narol]

Dainoji, my warriors are winning quite well and my Siam even finished second at the last Blood Games, in case you didn't noticed... So I don't need a scapegoat !

I'm spending money on 5 of my guys to give them the 6 slots, it's expensive for my budget but I can tell by experience that it REALLY makes a difference. It doesn't guarantee a win but it will raise seriously your W/L ratio if you match it with a smart strat.

At the contrary, even the best trainer will have a very hard time keeping a guy for a long time in the top 10 without using the 6 slots.

I love this game too much to just run 3 gladiators like you just because my budget wouldn't allow me to give them all the complete set of bells and whistles, but you won't stop me from telling that it sucks that the current achievement system makes the game "Pay-To-Win".

See you in the Arena, I will make you feel the difference and maybe open a breach in your closed mind !

[Dainoji]

Dainoji, my warriors are winning quite well and my Siam even finished second at the last Blood Games, in case you didn't noticed... So I don't need a scapegoat !

Congratulations!

I'm spending money on 5 of my guys to give them the 6 slots, it's expensive for my budget but I can tell by experience that it REALLY makes a difference. It doesn't guarantee a win but it will raise seriously your W/L ratio if you match it with a smart strat.

Guess I need smarter strats. I'll get to work on that!

At the contrary, even the best trainer will have a very hard time keeping a guy for a long time in the top 10 without using the 6 slots.

Maybe, I'm not privy to all the other player's gladiators, I can only speak for my own.

I love this game too much to just run 3 gladiators like you just because my budget wouldn't allow me to give them all the complete set of bells and whistles, but you won't stop me from telling that it sucks that the current achievement system makes the game "Pay-To-Win".

I love it too, and of course you are free to have an opinion and glad you do, people without opinions are dull, but remember, opinions are not fact, they are just opinions be mindful to treat them as such.

See you in the Arena, I will make you feel the difference and maybe open a breach in your closed mind !

I sure hope so! While you are in there can you see if you can do something about my fear of commitment? Oh! And my spelling, I never was a good speller...that little red squiggly line in Firefox is a godsend!

My gladiators are Thunder Lips, Chuck Norris and Pharaoh, challenge away!

[HipsterD]

I agree with Narol, and I don't think the point in the end is whether you can be competitive with a small budget or not. The real (and much more interesting) issue: can this become a great game with a great number of players with the current trophy system or not. I hope I'm wrong, because I enjoy the game thoroughly, but I doubt that it will ever see the kind of numbers of players that it should.