Chain armor vs Plate armor

[Cynaidh]

I agree Crow that's why he changed it but i think he had side effects that maybe where not thought about.

Individual gladiator skill/strategy is now pointless in my opinion, its all about numbers now, how many glads you can use to challenge someone. It used to be if you could bring a glad to Primus and keep a 65% win ratio and you would climb up the ranks, i did with Belgarad he was my only glad in Primus and before this points change he caught up and took the top spot under the old system, so it was possible.

Now with the points change i think you can forget about ever seeing a single gladiator do that again. It is now going to take a solid 10-15 gladiators to make a push to the top spot and here is my reasoning why. If you spend your daily tokens wisely and have your challenges go threw and win all your fights you might climb 30 ranks in one day, even make it into the teens, but all that growth can be knocked out by 3-4 losses. And whats the easiest way to give someone those losses, attack them in mass.

Right now in the Primus Top 10 Crow/Oedi have 7 of the glads, in the top 20 they have 13 of the glads, in the top 30 around 19 glads, so below 30 you two have another 7 glads or so. So if your in the top 10 you have at least 3 of their glads challenging each day just cause your the only target, if your in the top 10-20 you could be challenged more (I'd guess though that their goal right now is clearing out the top 10, that's what I'd be doing ). Even if you win 70% of those fights you will loose points with how the new system is.

For an example i will use Zmash, he is in the top 10 right now, i don't expect him to be there much longer, if he lasts 2 more weeks i'd consider him a bad ass . Early this morning he was in 2nd place and about 3k away from 1st place after his fights and then during the day today he was challenged 12 times by Crow/Oedi gladiators (4 different glads) and won about 50% of the fights, he is now 13k points away from 1st and dropped from 2nd to 4th place. Every time he drops a rank it just opens him up to more challenges from different glads. By cherry picking the match ups they can easily push all the other glads out of the top of Primus. Each time one person is pushed out that free's up more glads for them to challenge the remaining glads with, even if your winning 60% of your fights against the challenges with the amount of points you now loose on a lose you will drop in rank.

I have no real complaints about what Crow/Oedi are doing its just how the game works right now, but I do believe they will be able to get to the point where they are the top 15 if not the top 20 glads in the game due to them having all types the different types of glads at their disposal, every glad has a weakness no one glad can take on everyone, they can cherry pick the challenges and use favorable match ups to achieve this. I fully expect them to take over the top 15-20 or more, hell I'd be disappointed if they don't!

Now I am kinda focused on Crow/Oedi here but it will be the same when another group rises with more numbers then they have and they will be pushed out unless their glads can win 75% of there battles (which should be unrealistic when matched up against the "counter" style to your glad) or what ever it takes to stay points neutral on wins/losses. I am sure we will see this in the months to come. They just happen to be the top "Alliance" right now.

I decided today to stop trying to being "competitive" in Primus, I just really don't see the point right now, before it was about trying to take a gladiator to the top, now its about politics and playing the numbers game, some people probably really enjoy that type of game but its not my thing. I have no interest in trying to start a "cold war" of gladiator stables and try and match the number of glads Crow/Oedi have in Primus. So i plan on focusing on the blood games and re-doing some of my glads to make them more competitive there, daily fights will just be to get training points.

Now if you've made it this far do i think there is a fix, yes its an easy fix, just lower the % chance of a challenge going threw, and put a hard cap on the number of times a glad can be successfully challenged, say 4 a day. That would insure that high end "Alliances" would still end up fighting each other a lot, and give "Independent" managers with 1-3 glads a hell of a better shot of seeing the top of Primus then how it is now.

[Cynaidh]

Damn i got long winded on that one.

I am now off to go try and take a beer from one of BlkTmplr's bears.

[crow]

If you want I will call off the dogs so to speak, and we can just go back to normal. I only did this in response to the "Rage United" group that started relentlessly challenging my guys and Oedi's. You guys let me know. This game is about fun, and if it stops being fun then that is when people stop playing and that is not what I am about. It always sucks to see a stable manager quit for whatever reason.

[Dainoji]

IMO Primus is exactly as it needs to be. The top glads are still in the top, all the usual suspects are winning enough to keep their spots or rise, those who are not worthy drop. Sure it gets disheartening to see your glad rise to the teens only to be knocked back, but guess what that means? Your glad just isn't good enough, that's what that means. If your glad is good enough it doesn't matter how many times he or she is challenged, if they are good enough they'll win most of those challenges and hold their position and maybe even rise. Changing the point system so mediocre glads can keep their spots is just silly. I'm not picking on anyone with this post either, my crown jewel for most of last year Thunder Lips simply isn't good enough anymore to hold the top spots, the new breed of gladiators that have made their way into Primus are simply better and their managers are better. It's evolution baby, survival of the fittest.

Another thing with the current point system is it makes new glads who are level 50 and by all means equal to a glad one year older on even footing sort to speak. You shouldn't get an in-game advantage in a PvP game simply because you've been around longer, that extra time should give you an out of game advantage in the form of knowledge the new player doesn't have.

Regarding the complaint of getting picked on, I agree with Crow on having fun and all, but listen, you are in the Primus with the best of the best and what I see happening right now is awesome and exciting, players are self organizing into gangs and beating the shit out of each other using team work, that is A W E S O M E! If you can't take the heat you have a couple of options:

1) Join a group and get strength in numbers (best option)
2) Figure out how to be a bad ass and be a lone wolf
3) Leave the kitchen (worse option, unless you are a horrible cook)

Crow, if you call off the dogs I'll have no respect for you. If Rage United can't take it, then continue to pound them into obscurity, they started the war! If they don't want to get picked on they are free to denounce their guild and go freelance as they once were, but then I'd have no respect for them either!

I guess I'd add one last piece and say, for now Primus is all about bragging rights, you don't get anything for being in the top 10, so have fun with it, maybe politics isn't your thing, that's cool, but perhaps you can be an "enforcer" for one of the guilds, or a "gun for hire". You can keep your independent status yet still work with and against opposing factions.

[Dainoji]

Damn i got long winded on that one.

I am now off to go try and take a beer from one of BlkTmplr's bears.

I think we've created another Pit of War meme! We can add this next to Grape Ape.

[Dainoji]

Back to the plate vs chain vs war vs theatrics discussion. Another factor that I think might have been brought up earlier but is worth mentioning again is I see a lot of Spite Theatrics glads. Spite's get a natural bonus to defense, so there is one more variable to throw in there.

[Cynaidh]

If you want I will call off the dogs so to speak, and we can just go back to normal. I only did this in response to the "Rage United" group that started relentlessly challenging my guys and Oedi's. You guys let me know. This game is about fun, and if it stops being fun then that is when people stop playing and that is not what I am about. It always sucks to see a stable manager quit for whatever reason.

I am not quitting! And hell no I want to see you and Oedi succeed, looking forward to it, like i said above if this is how the game is evolving then you guys are just in a good position right now till the next group comes up to challenge you (Looks like Caine has that in the works as we speak). Besides I am kinda interested on how long Zmash can last. I just plan on shifting focus to the blood games, the whole guild, clan, alliance what ever you want to call it just isn't my thing anymore, i spent a large portion of my life running a 100+ person guild in EQ and then WoW and got totally burned out on those games from it.... Did that, done that, don't plan on doing it again.

1) Join a group and get strength in numbers (best option)

I totally agree Dainoji I think the game is fixing to see an huge uptake in groups,clans,alliances its not a bad thing its just an evolution of the game.

Back to the plate vs chain vs war vs theatrics discussion. Another factor that I think might have been brought up earlier but is worth mentioning again is I see a lot of Spite Theatrics glads. Spite's get a natural bonus to defense, so there is one more variable to throw in there.

Black Talon is a sprite also so we can rule that out.

I think we are down to 2 things:

1. Counter Strike is much more defensive then Parry-Bash(slash/lunge) - I have tested this on Cel i don't take less damage in counter strike then i do when running Parry-slash, it might be a bit more actually. So I don't believe this is the difference.

2. the theatrics Level 5 Heavy Scarring is a much better skill then the warriors level 6 Battle Hardened - I think this is it, Battle Hardened just raises your defensive which i am beginning to believe only effects your parry/deflections/your opponents miss rate and has nothing to do with how much damage you take per hit, Heavy Scarring description doesn't really tell us what it does but to me its kinda straight forward now that it lowers how much damage you take per hit, its the last factor we have to look at that could be doing it.

So my final thoughts on all this is that due to Battle Hardened not effecting how much damage you can hit, its really hard for a defensive warrior to be successful cause you have power ragers hitting them for 1k damage on normal hits due to them having no skill that lowers damage per hit. An offensive warrior with battle hardened will not be as effective as an offensive theatrics with Heavy scarring due to how the skills work, when using bash, lunge, slash offensive warriors do not parry much, showing that they doing get much out of battle hardened. While at the same time an offensive theatrics still gets the lower damage per hit from Heavy scarring no matter what strategy they use (again in my opinion). Since theatrics can also pick up Create Distance from the warrior tree I would also say at this point that a theatrics in chain armor has a greater ability in being a defensive gladiator then a warrior does in plate armor due to these skill differences.

[Cynaidh]

If your glad is good enough it doesn't matter how many times he or she is challenged, if they are good enough they'll win most of those challenges and hold their position and maybe even rise.

That is impossible IF your going against a well organized large alliance with a variety of gladiators. Every glad in this game so far has had a counter, even the glads at the very top Summit and Delta, a speed based offensive theatrics eats them alive, i proved that to myself with Cel even before she was skill capped. I just couldn't keep her in the top due to the large number of warriors laying around in the top 20.

Power rage beat warriors of all types and defensive theatrics
Speed rage beats power rage
Offensive theatrics beat both type of rages
Offensive Warriors with athleticism beat offensive theatrics
Defensive theatrics beat speed rage and some warriors
Defensive warriors... well they try to skum you but good luck with that

And then you have all the hybrid builds which blows my mind up thinking of all those match ups.

There is always a counter, so if an alliance is big enough, they will only challenge your glad with the counter style to your gladiator, and yes you might win some of the fights, but I would be surprised to see a glad beat their counter style more then 50%. If your a super bad ass Duel wield rage, they are going to throw their offensive theatrics at you only, so you will drop in ranks.

[Prinny]

Just figure out a way to make your glad badass and make them win agaisnt a high variety of glads, im trying to do that with Laharl and since he's learned Last Stand 10 he's been doing alot better against various glads including the huge damage a round hitting rages he majorly lost to before.

He's ranked 10th atm and im not being all to picky in choosing my opponents exept when I feel like making him battle a glad and most of the time the ones I pick are the ones Laharl has a harder time against lol

The other 4 are just laying low in Primus/Maximus as I build up their skills/attributes and lvl them to 50 upon which ill give them some nice shining new gear when I feel like it.

[Cynaidh]

Oh nice! The warrior/rage hybrid does seem to do well there is no doubt about that at all. Very similar build to my guy Zmash, except Zmash is 2handed. Have you fought Caine or Summit yet? Zmash rarely makes it to round 2 vs either of them.