Parry Styles

Has anyone had any luck with the parry styles in Theatrical.

I have a decent warrior, good stats, good gear, a big ol shield, enough defensive skills to get by.

If I run him offensive, he has a chance. Slash/Lunge and some big numbers in activity.

If I run him similarly in a parry style or counterstrike (decent numbers in activity), he gets dismembered by any warrior worth his weight in salt. Not to say there isn't an odd win, but just no real luck in that area.

A warrior with a big weapon will dominate counterstrike, and parry/whatever. A warrior with 2 smaller weapons and passion for aggression will most likely take apart the parry styles and counterstrike as well.

What am I missing?

I for one have not had much success with parry-slash or counterstrike when its triggered for me in fights, although I cant seem to make myself give up on them. Id love to find a way for counterstrike to be successful... I think my problem is with the triggers... by the time it triggers im already torn to pieces. The damage is just too high for them to work... the big guys hitting for 200-300 damage in one huge shot... well... you cant miss a single parry or your toast.

I've opened with parry-x or counterstrike for about 1/2 my fights. It occasionally works, but it is more or less a fluke. Or I'm paired with a lesser specimen.

Tank works like a charm. I enjoy using it. Berserker and Kill Shot have their uses also. But I can't find a home for counterstrike and parry-x.

Keep in mind the key to what parry is. Defense, don't expect great parry skills with a gladiator not built or dressed for defense.

Kaos,

Have you had a successful parry-x warrior? My warriors highest start is agi (which is saying something, he is a decent specimen), geared respectably and toting a fine shield (I swap it out with a tower from time to time to see if it makes a difference.. but the 14 weight has me shy about using it all the time).

It just seems any other style, focused on offensive, has the advantage. The activity is set high because.. well I rarely pass out from exhaustion.. and defense works better with activity so says the tooltips.

On the flip, a decent War toon with Tank and a decent strategy very obviously works.

I have the top 2 ranked Theatrical fighters overall, and each have used or use a parry style based on certian triggers. Sorry no scouting reports...
But parry is very useful in the right situation against certian styles and activity's. But if you are not geared for defense that the parry must have, the style becomes a deathwish I have found.

I will say, once the Total Parry to Tank issue was taken care of, the ParryX became a whole lot more useful. It is also not a very good style for young gladiators as they can barely block or dodge upto at least the Elite level. IMO that is. ...but what do I know, I just do a lot of whining on these boards.

The Counter/Parry styles don't match up against a highly offensive style like Rage (he'll just smash through them), and they are all but worthless against a Tank, as well (you can't counter or parry a shot which is never thrown). They do work marginally well against a moderately active fighter, such as an offensive War or Theatrics glad, though. Just do your scouting, and challenge those fighters with styles which are compatable (compatible???). I've had some success using Counter or Parry-x as an opening/standby style, and then switching to various other styles as the triggers are hit.

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The Counter/Parry styles don't match up against a highly offensive style like Rage (he'll just smash through them),

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Not completely accurate. A well geared Counter Attack can be successful vs a Rage gladiator, unless the Rage is decked out in ultra heavy strength or attack gear, which then just becomes a game of who has the best gear. However he can get through a couple rounds without heavy damage when up vs a non stacked Rage. It just wont work for the duration of the fight because some of the Rage's have massive damage hits with the 2 handed weapons, and only need a couple good whacks to end it. If they are using lighter weapons it can be done.

Keep in mind, a high activity Rage with high bloodlust will not always get accurate shots or even make decent contact on a fighter with good agility and good defensive skills. Also keep in mind Counter Attack is not truly a defensive style like a parry, I have seen that it can be as offensive as the opponent is.

A parry on the otherhand will indeed end up getting smashed eventually, usually due to just being overpowered. Although I have seen them doing a little better as the levels increase.

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Originally Posted by Team Kaos

A well geared Counter Attack can be successful vs a Rage gladiator, unless the Rage is decked out in ultra heavy strength or attack gear, which then just becomes a game of who has the best gear.

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This is true in theory...however, with the current state of the game, I am encountering an ever-increasing number of opponents who are simply decked out in Attack Power Purple, particularly the Rage and War fighters, and at that point Counterattack simply cannot hold it's own unless, as you alluded to, the defender is also decked out in Defense Purple. And at that point, it is no longer a contest of skill or wits...it's a matter of item integrity.

As for "good defensive skills", there really aren't any available to the Theatrics gladiator with the exception of Iron Jaw....which has proven to be almost as worthless and broken as Finishing Blow in my experience...unless you go outside the Theatrics tree.

High agility is certainly a benefit, but it is by no means a mitigating factor when using Counter-Attack against a skilled Rage gladiator....particularly if he has pre-purchased his wins in the form of epic level items. The idea behind Counter-Attack, and certainly the way it has been run in my experience, is that you are trying to match your opponent blow-for-blow...which is a fatal decision if your opponent "blows" much harder than you do. :)

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This is true in theory...however, with the current state of the game, I am encountering an ever-increasing number of opponents who are simply decked out in Attack Power Purple, particularly the Rage and War fighters, and at that point Counterattack simply cannot hold it's own unless, as you alluded to, the defender is also decked out in Defense Purple

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As would be expected in this game type platform, the gladiator with the big trophy gear will always have the advantage between 2 evenly skilled fighters.

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As for "good defensive skills", there really aren't any available to the Theatrics gladiator with the exception of Iron Jaw....which has proven to be almost as worthless and broken as Finishing Blow in my experience...unless you go outside the Theatrics tree

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Armor gear is the defensive nuetralizer for a theatric fighter. But this is a debate that falls upon my long ago hissy fits that Theatric fighters are outclassed vs the Rage and War gladiators within thier respective skill tree's.
I will defend Iron Jaw though, it does help tremendously in not getting stunned even when getting rocked by a 300+ Rage blast. But then again it only takes 2 of those to end the fight anyway, stunned or not. And again it falls back on being a defensive wiz, high defense doesn't allow the big shots to land, instead of 200+ blasts, you can tune the hits down well under 100 for the most part while picking the Rage or War fighter apart.

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"High agility is certainly a benefit, but it is by no means a mitigating factor when using Counter-Attack against a skilled Rage gladiator....particularly if he has pre-purchased his wins in the form of epic level items. The idea behind Counter-Attack, and certainly the way it has been run in my experience, is that you are trying to match your opponent blow-for-blow...which is a fatal decision if your opponent "blows" much harder than you do."

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Agility helps out in eluding some of the bigger hits it seems but like you say cannot be counted on soley to best a Raging beast and his mace's or 2 handed weapons.

In theory I would also believe you go punch for punch with Counter Attack, but I have not seen it exactly that way. I see more of the opponent getting 2, 3 even 4 swings in a row and then you counter with 2,3 or 4 swings of your own. And whoever is in better shape after that flurry tends to get the upper hand. Which brings us back to Iron Jaw, if you can resist being stunned you have a good chance at getting the advantage by stunning your opponent with one of those hits.

It is just that the tool tip says.. 'Counter Attack has the upper hand against the offensive fighting styles.'

But I just can't figure out how. My current opinion is you can make a successful defensive/counter strike gladiator, but he probably would have been a better off as a WAR gladiator.

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But I just can't figure out how. My current opinion is you can make a successful defensive/counter strike gladiator, but he probably would have been a better off as a WAR gladiator.

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I think you need to rethink the Counter Stike strategy. If he was defensive it would be a Parry X strategy.

Counter STRIKE!

The gladiator does not try to parry off attacks and wait for an opening, it is an offensive hybrid strategy.
While his opponent is attacking the Counter Strike is already in the works. With his defensive ability and agility he should be trying to side step, or recieve a glancing blow opposed to trying to knock the attack away or block it.
But also position himself to make a successful strike on his opponent.

IMO Counter Strike is undoubtably the most difficult strategy to gear up and figure out. The gladiator needs to have agility and be defensive enough to not get the full brunt of the opponents attack if he is unable to move away from it, but also quick enough and offensivly adept to get in a powerful strike, only to repeat it over and over.

I don't know, but it would make sense that intelligence would also play a roll for a counter strike. He's not a rager with a one track mind on destruction nor is he a parry sitting back and waiting for an open shot that may never come if he is up against an offensive bull.
He is a offensive fighter trying to keep his opponent off balance while gaining the offensive advantage all the while he is giving up the initiative to his opponent.

If you can make sense of that perhaps it may be helpful. Maybe not...my mind works in odd ways.

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Originally Posted by Team Kaos

The gladiator does not try to parry off attacks and wait for an opening, it is an offensive hybrid strategy.
While his opponent is attacking the Counter Strike is already in the works. With his defensive ability and agility he should be trying to side step, or recieve a glancing blow opposed to trying to knock the attack away or block it.
But also position himself to make a successful strike on his opponent.
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'Just like in practice, go ahead and wait for him to attack and then counter!' - The Trainer.

It seems to imply a defensive nature. If your plan is to let someone attack you, and be responsive, you are reactionary by nature. You even had trouble describing it without using defensive. But this is all just semantics. The value is in the results.

I set an activity level. It is mid to hight range to encourage action at the cost of striking power and endurance. I sacrifice first swing rights with counter strike (often to my doom!) with the hopes that I'll survive for a devastating response, looking to see the payback in the form of 'Counter Attack has the upper hand against the offensive fighting styles.'

Any ways, my gladiator is pretty secure in his defensive 'natural' ability. His gear is the best I can get without visiting the chamber. It may not be all defensive, but at this stage I am happy with any gear that improves on the last piece.

The gladiator is most successful against other Theatrics warriors with goofy strategies. He suffers from Rage (with big weapons, I rarely see them any other way) and War of any kind (Tank or ... just Kill you from inside a suit of armor).

I'll keep at it. At the least, a learning experience.

Counter attack can be devastating to a rage gladiator going berserk because the theatrics guy is basically matching hit for hit with the added bonus of getting to wear better armor. I bet you are having trouble because it doesn't work like most of the other styles. Its behavior changes based on who you are fighting. If your opponent attacks a lot, then so do you, if he doesn't then you stand around as well. One style you might do well as the other you may not, so I'd say it is a more high maintenance style requiring you to play with it more based on who you are fighting.

My highest ranked gladiator is Theatrics (Domitius) he's in Juggernauts (low as he just joined). I find I use counter attack quite a bit, it is in my opinion one of the best fight stances available. That said, it requires you to be fairly active to be successful (i.e. it costs a fair amount of endurance) and as others have pointed out it has a harder time with Kill Shot stance or gladiators who have really big weapons (2-handers).

My take on Theatrics is that they need to rely on Signature Move as it can be a huge equalizer. Also I feel that around the 20+ lvl range they are at slight disadvantage until they can pick up Heavy Scarring or decent medium armor (or both).

I will say that as a Theatrics I rarely use parry, I really think it's best used for when you're getting tired as I believe (guess) that it uses less endurance than counter attack does.

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Originally Posted by Arkham

'Just like in practice, go ahead and wait for him to attack and then counter!' - The Trainer.

It seems to imply a defensive nature. If your plan is to let someone attack you, and be responsive, you are reactionary by nature. You even had trouble describing it without using defensive. But this is all just semantics. The value is in the results.

I set an activity level. It is mid to hight range to encourage action at the cost of striking power and endurance. I sacrifice first swing rights with counter strike (often to my doom!) with the hopes that I'll survive for a devastating response, looking to see the payback in the form of 'Counter Attack has the upper hand against the offensive fighting styles.'

Any ways, my gladiator is pretty secure in his defensive 'natural' ability. His gear is the best I can get without visiting the chamber. It may not be all defensive, but at this stage I am happy with any gear that improves on the last piece.

The gladiator is most successful against other Theatrics warriors with goofy strategies. He suffers from Rage (with big weapons, I rarely see them any other way) and War of any kind (Tank or ... just Kill you from inside a suit of armor).

I'll keep at it. At the least, a learning experience.

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it's for reasons that Dainoji outlined why I don't think it's a good style to default or start out in, it should be triggered to turn on for specific occasions.

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Originally Posted by Team Kaos

I will defend Iron Jaw though, it does help tremendously in not getting stunned even when getting rocked by a 300+ Rage blast. But then again it only takes 2 of those to end the fight anyway, stunned or not.

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I'm not convinced that Stun is even working as it should, to be honest. I've been stunned/blinded for multiple rounds, and have seen no reduction in the number or strength of my attacks. In a typical Stun, it is administered in the last one or two hits of the round, and is removed at the beginning of the next, anyway. Perhaps there is an issue with current attacks not being removed from the attack queue? I'm not sure. In any case, it seems to me that a Gladiator is just as likely to resist a stun effect without Iron Jaw as he is with it. Your mileage may vary...

As you mentioned, it all goes back to gear....if a Theatrics fighter wants to stand a chance against an offensive Rage gladiator, his only recourse is Epic level armor, and even that can't withstand a +505 hit (which I took from a low-level gladiator this morning).

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I'm not convinced that Stun is even working as it should, to be honest.

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WTF? Are you kidding me? I get stunned and my normal 6+ attack round gets turned into a 1 or 2 or 0 attack round which pretty much means I lose! Iron Jaw is key to preventing this from happening IMO. Sure all gladiators seem to have some form of stun defense but Iron Jaw takes it to the next level.

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In a typical Stun, it is administered in the last one or two hits of the round, and is removed at the beginning of the next, anyway.

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It my experience and how I read the tooltips is the effect lasts for X rounds and the current round counts as one. So if you get the hit in early it is huge, if it is the last hit in the round then you lose out. I've had both happen on numerous occasions. Getting stunned is on par with dropping your weapon for a gladiator who typically doesn't go more than one or two rounds anyhow.

Perhaps I'm only getting stunned or stunning my opponents late in the round, then, when it really has no effect. Although, you would think that, with a multiple round stun, I should see a bit more of a reduction in attacks, which I don't.

It's possible that, each and every time I use stun or get stunned, I have been opposing or using a fighting style which is naturally unaffected by it...but that seems a bit of a stretch. I'll keep a closer eye on it over the next few weeks, and see if I'm just getting really lucky/unlucky. I'd really like to think that it works as intended, and if you claim it does, then I'll keep my fingers crossed :)

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Perhaps I'm only getting stunned or stunning my opponents late in the round, then, when it really has no effect. Although, you would think that, with a multiple round stun, I should see a bit more of a reduction in attacks, which I don't

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It could also be that when you are stunning your opponent the round end quicker simply because he is not swinging anymore due to being stunned. Otherwise he may be pumping out a couple more damaging swings. True it may just be dragging out the inevitable to the next round but could be something to key on with your fighter and change up his build to take advantage of such instances.

It's also possible that you're stunning someone who is insanely fast, for example one of my gladiators w/gear has 97 agility. He attacks a lot and I suspect if he's stunned (he has a few ranks in Iron Jaw) his attacks go down, but he's still stupid fast.

O' and one last tid bit to Counter Attack -- I think it really really helps if your weapon skill is higher. Too low or if your opponent has higher than I think it's much harder to pull the fighting style off.

Speaking of which, anyone see a cap on stats? Do they break 100?

(I'm enjoying the discourse, BTW. Thank you all for adding to the conversation!)

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Originally Posted by Arkham

Speaking of which, anyone see a cap on stats? Do they break 100?

(I'm enjoying the discourse, BTW. Thank you all for adding to the conversation!)

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Yes, you can eclipse 100, a few are already doing it in certian stats.

Yeah, I thought 100 was the cap, but there are a few blokes in my roommates stables who have broken that ceiling.

As far as Stun goes, though, I did notice starting this morning that my stunned opponents did get far fewer hits this time around. So, it's likely I just had a very, very, very long run of bad luck.

I'm still bitter about the Disarm thing, though..... :)

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I'm still bitter about the Disarm thing, though...

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Join the group....I'm bitter about the whole Theatrical fighter being at a disadvantage from these hulking beasts that carry mega slow weapons and can swing them faster then General Grievous on coke.
Not often can you beat a rage to the punch.

I only have one theatrical guy and I do trigger counter with high activity when the other guy attacks more. I was just took a look at my last three fights and it seems to be working better for my guy than a lot of you seem to be talking about. I may even try it more now that you all made me take a closer look at it. It looks to be a more of a defensive style than I had thought. Is this what you all are seeing as well? When do you all try counter?

I find Counter world much better the Parry. I have tried numerous times but just can't seem to find the sweetspot for parry. It seems more of a deathwish then a help. Any gladiator with a big weapon just crushes through it.

If someone has any success with it, I'd love to know how. Parry has got me stumped.

As for Counter, it works well vs all different types of tactics but does seem to have a prblem in countering immediatley following an opponents strike. It sees it stacks up, so if your opponent throws 2,3 or 4 in a row, you counter with 2, 3 or 4 in a row afterwards. I think it should be a more 1 for 1 tactic