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Well even after the balancing passes seems like these warriors are still taking the same old beatings. Getting close to giving up on this particular build. Probably gonna sell Sliver next time I see a good prospect hit the market. I do like having him around..because he is a nightmare for 2-handed war builds.
By curiosity, how good does Sliver against Black Talon ?
My own 2H Rage Larshamir Furyo always get crushed down when he fights him, contrary to most war builds...
O.o how odd BT's last fight today was a random match up vs Sliver, it was a weird fight though, lost his weapon at the beginning of it and it was just weird, I'd expect Sliver to do better vs BT as he is really well rounded 1700 hit points, great damage, I'd challenge him if i could to get more samples but we are too far apart right now :/ This is the match up I was trying to design BT to win though, either threw migrating enough of the big hits to win (vs the low hit point 2 handed rage, 1 parry/dodge/absorption can be the difference), or to hit them hard enough with the bastard sword to cause a knockdown/disarm/stun.
The fallen remains of gladiators litters the arena sands!
R O U N D 1
>> SLIVER SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> BLACK TALON SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
BLACK TALON speeds frantically around SLIVER.
BLACK TALON twists his MASTERWORK BASTARD SWORD into a gruesome thrust.
BLACK TALON connects with his MASTERWORK BASTARD SWORD creating mighty wounds! (+358 Damage)
SLIVER watches as the ground comes rushing up to meet him after the wicked strike!
>> BLACK TALON SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 5
BLACK TALON makes an off handed attack.
BLACK TALON uses his BLOODSAND SLICER to carve a path of destruction through the air.
A mammoth wound is opened on SLIVER's lower calf! (+177 Damage)
SLIVER cringes as his weapon drops to the ground after the strike!
SLIVER has taken some slight damage from this fight!
SLIVER moves around on the ground looking for an opening to strike.
SLIVER rages like a wild beast and attacks with his FIST.
SLIVER aims for BLACK TALON's torso
BLACK TALON kicks SLIVER in the chest knocking him out of striking range! (-Create Distance-)
R O U N D 2
SLIVER gets back up!
BLACK TALON moves and skips around his opponent.
BLACK TALON clumsily lashes out with his BLOODSAND SLICER.
SLIVER is knocked back as his armour absorbs the hit!
BLACK TALON hustles furiously back and forth.
BLACK TALON whips around with his off hand.
BLACK TALON sees an opening and attempts to shove his BLOODSAND SLICER into SLIVER.
BLACK TALON's BLOODSAND SLICER connects with SLIVER's cheekbone creating freakish wounds! (+159 Damage)
BLACK TALON moves towards SLIVER and tries to maim him.
Sparks fly as SLIVER's armour deflects the strike!
SLIVER dances and springs around his enemy.
SLIVER whips around with his off hand.
SLIVER unleashes a ferocious uppercut.
SLIVER looks to seriously damage BLACK TALON's armour! (-Sunder Armour-)
SLIVER goes for BLACK TALON's chest and connects with his FIST creating severe wounds! (+97 Damage)
SLIVER moves and leaps around BLACK TALON.
SLIVER side steps an attack and whips his FIST around in response.
SLIVER roars uncontrollably as he attacks! (-Rampage-)
Incredible smash to what used to be BLACK TALON's stomach brings the crowd to their feet! (+623 Damage)
BLACK TALON has minor cuts and bruises on his body!
SLIVER tries to injure BLACK TALON with his FIST.
BLACK TALON backs up a few inches as SLIVER descends upon him! (-Shock & Awe-)
BLACK TALON's armour absorbs the hit!
R O U N D 3
SLIVER finds an old BALL & CHAIN laying on the ground.
BLACK TALON looks to an off handed strike to deal damage.
BLACK TALON attempts to injure SLIVER.
BLACK TALON is aiming at SLIVER's trailing leg.
A huge laceration to the lower arm exposes meat and tissue...SLIVER's arm becomes almost useless! (+135 Damage)
SLIVER takes a step back to catch a quick breather.
BLACK TALON runs like wild fire back and forth.
BLACK TALON deftly lunges forward, his MASTERWORK BASTARD SWORD moving at blazing speeds.
Terrible slash to SLIVER...entrails spill out onto the ground! (+304 Damage)
Blood pours from SLIVER's battle wounds!!
BLACK TALON charges at SLIVER and attempts to cut through his opponent.
SLIVER is knocked back as his armour absorbs the hit!
SLIVER attempts to strike his opponent.
SLIVER looks to seriously damage BLACK TALON's armour! (-Sunder Armour-)
Great blast to BLACK TALON's upper arm shatters all in its path! (+482 Damage)
BLACK TALON is bleeding from multiple flesh wounds!!
SLIVER advances on BLACK TALON and looks to destroy him.
SLIVER tries to knock BLACK TALON down with the force of the blow! (-Barreling Attack-)
BLACK TALON's armour protects him from the attack!
R O U N D 4
BLACK TALON looks at the crowd as he hurtles around the battle field.
BLACK TALON makes a clumsy thrust with his BLOODSAND SLICER.
BLACK TALON is aiming at SLIVER's trailing leg.
BLACK TALON's face scowls as SLIVER's armour does its job!
BLACK TALON moves furiously trying to gain the advantage.
BLACK TALON tries to slice off a few pounds with his MASTERWORK BASTARD SWORD.
With a magnificent and bloody hit to the lower thigh SLIVER grabs the devastated area and hops around the arena...the crowd erupts in laughter! (+316 Damage)
SLIVER curses as the attack knocks his weapon to the ground!
SLIVER watches as the ground comes rushing up to meet him after the wicked strike!
BLACK TALON takes a step back to catch a quick breather.
Fatigue weighs SLIVER down, slowing his attacks.
SLIVER is bleeding very badly from several wounds!!!
SLIVER lets forth the roar of a lion and prepares to leave it all on the sands! (-Last Stand-)
SLIVER attempts to strike from the ground.
SLIVER swings his elbow across.
BLACK TALON kicks SLIVER in the chest knocking him out of striking range! (-Create Distance-)
BLACK TALON decides to attack with the other hand.
BLACK TALON fluidly shifts his weight, leaps forward and viciously slashes at SLIVER.
Cruel slash to the foot goes through flesh and bone like a hot knife through butter! (+227 Damage)
Resisted Can Not Defend Effect!
SLIVER tries to attack from the ground.
SLIVER takes a novice swing with his FIST.
BLACK TALON's armour protects him!
SLIVER readies a strike from the ground.
SLIVER attacks with an vicious uppercut.
Well placed shot to the arm slightly mangles the meat! (+88 Damage)
R O U N D 5
SLIVER yells in frustration as he looks for an opening to stand!
SLIVER quickly picks up his VORPAL WAR CHAIN from off the ground!
BLACK TALON makes an off handed attack.
BLACK TALON nearly overextends himself as he jabs his BLOODSAND SLICER forward.
After assessing the situation, BLACK TALON decides against it.
BLACK TALON's BLOODSAND SLICER leaps through the air in a vicious slicing attack.
A cyclopean wound is opened on SLIVER's nose! (+220 Damage)
>> BLACK TALON SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
>> SLIVER SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 4
SLIVER begins to plea for his worthless life and after a moment of thought BLACK TALON spits on the pitiful fool and walks away!
The loser is dragged out of the arena!
The fight lasted 51 seconds!
Thanks Cynaidh, very interesting fight...
BT is gonna be a PITA for many established managers, for sure ! Maybe that will make them change their mind about the fairness of power-levelling...
I'd be sad to see sliver go. I share some of the feelings, but having some boost in 2H rage fills me with hope that they may yet become competative, but they are still a bit of a novelty item for seeing how badly you can beat someone in an arm wrestle.Quote:
Originally Posted by crow
I think a big part is is simply the current metagame, where it is just speedy offensive glads. if more war glads rose up, 2H rage would have some nicer pickings.... then again there's a massive amount of 2H ragers in bloodgods/maximus for them to get through first hahaha.
I'd guess that Nate will check things at the end of the month and reassess. I'm waiting out till then. Kharn is pretty close to being scrapped himself, only saved by being in the blood games. I'll probably go 2H rage again in hope that they get better, but i'm sorely tempted to be a heathen to my stable and get a war glad :P
Same here Smak is working on his 5th skill to hit rank 10 (he has 10's in two handed, shock and awe, brute force, and armor movement, and then 9's in Rampage, sunder armor, last stand, OP and TC) and basically he is worthless, even if i try and cherry pick favorable match ups for him he still is just so inconsistent, i think i have made it to primus teen's with him but then he fights a theatrics and only does 200 damage a hit (wtf is with that, no shit he hits warriors harder then theatrics) and its just a given that its a loss and back down into the 20's he goes.
Even his stats are decent i think:
Str 182 Int 68 Agil 93 Sta 106 Size 64 Pres 83 Chi 96
I have a feeling this will be his last blood games and i'll be looking for a replacement too.
2 handers till i die. or move on from this game at least. it would seem my interest is waning at this point. the ranking system is now completely meaningless. even so, i never sought the throne to begin with. i just like being part of the gauntlet. not to mention the body count :)
Primus ranking is different now for sure.... I still say it would be so much better if the top 25 primus warriors could only use fight tokens (no trophies) then the top 10 would be a nice achievement.
Ziggler is right, 2H Ragers are not finished, and his INCREDULOUS guy is leading the Blood Games with 5 points of advance over Caine and 6 over Belgarad and Zmash !!
Power Ragers can do it ! Go Ziggler, go !
My own 2H-Rager Larshamir scored his first win against Eruption today, I was quite proud !
All depends on if he can keep from dieing to Caine at some point :) I have a long ass post prepared for this conversation that i have been thinking about all day, i'll throw it up here in a second :)
I don't know about the rest of you but i have been in the dumps about my 2 handed rage trying to figure out what to do to make them be competitive as compared to a duel wielding rage set up for power (str, chi).
I've been comparing several of the top glads for each type for awhile now, my own and others,
For duel weild i looked mainly at Caine, Belgarad, Summit, and others for two handed i looked at LULWUT, INCREDULOUS D, Smak, and others. From what i have seen now you start to see patterns:
Two handed users are hitting from 600-1500, rampage doesn't play that huge of a deal cause in many of the fights sunder armor/shock and awe hits are the same damage as the rampages, they attacked 0 - 2 times per round, some fights they didn't attack until last stand triggered, they never attack first unless going against another 2 hand rage.
Duel wield damage ranged from 200's - 700's normal hits with 900-1200 rampages, the duel wields attack 4-5 times per round. They get the jump on their opponents frequently. Several of them are using lightest mace weapons possible to do this but still get the above damages.
Just looking at pure potential i can see the two handers putting out a realistic max of 2800 per round, that would be two shots at 1400 each, super rare but doable, normally i would expect 1800-2000 per round if they attack twice in a round. Now again a realistic max for the duel wield is the same 2800 per round, (1200 rampage, and 4 hits of 400), i would expect their average per round to about the same also. Now Caine and Lulwut are exceptions to these i am looking at averages, those two muscle bound killing machines with their 200+ strengths are capable of higher numbers but again about the same amount of potential damage per round.
So the potential damage i think is about about the same.... but realistically duel weilders get to hit that potential a lot more often then two-handed users, the negatives to me for 2 hand rage start to show up when you get into the battles:
Initiative - the Two handers are wielding the slowest weapons in the game, I saw very very few fights where they get the jump on their opponents (again talking about in primus here), the duel wielders are all either using two fast weapons or a heavy weapon main hand and a light weapon off hand. This allows them to get the jump on opponents very frequently. It is also seen that the two handed users do not attack at all in round 1 (even with berserk) in some fights.
Loosing Initiative = More Crit effects on you, since they go after their opponents, their opponents have hit them with War Cry, Hamstring, bleeds, stuns, knockdowns, hell it even appears if they attack you enough times you just wont attack at all. It also means more damage on you before you attack which = less attack power.
Max of 2 attacks per round, even with 160 agil a 2 handed weapon using rage with berserk will attack twice per round, i've never seen a 3rd attack ever in regular attacks, you can however see it with Last Stand rarely. So each fumble, miss, create distance, "you just only attack once per round for some reason", parry, block, or trip has the effect of lowering your potential damage for the round by 50%.
My personal experiences with Belgarad and Smak have shown me that even though Smak has better stats, they have equal gear, Smak has more trains done then belgarad, Smak has never and will never hit the top 10 with how it is currently, while Belgarad went all the way to the top.
Also i can compare Smak with Zmash, they are both 2 handed glads with last stand... the warrior version is better, Zmash has no where near the trains of Smak, less strenght but he has made it up to 4th in primus. There are currently THREE two-handed/polearm with Last Stand Warriors in the primus top 10, ZERO two-handed rage.
------------------------------
What I think might would bring some balance to 2 handed Rage:
1. Reach should be a factor in round 1's initiative, in boxing and MMA a 4 inch reach advantage is huge, a 2 handed rage with a great sword is going to have a 4 foot reach advantage over a person with a hand axe or a war hammer in each hand. I think this should be given as a large initiative bonus to a highly mobile leather armor wearing rage gladiator using a two handed weapon for the first attack in round one only.
2. Less "0 attacks per round" rounds, I am not sure how anyone running 10 berserk 10 doesn't attack in a round but it happens way too much I believe.
3. Remove the 2 attacks per round cap for high agility 2 hand rage.... by having it we are just taking out a whole subgroup of glads, we have speed duel wield rages and power duel wield rages, but two handed rage only has power.... I'd personally love to see a 2 handed rage sniveler with a great axe getting 3-4 attacks per round, they would be for less damage then a 200 str power two hand user for sure but hell at least it be fun to read.
I think that would make them more competitive without drastically changing anything.
Anyways this long ass post is sponsored by Samuel Adams Black Lager and by the fact that my wife and kids are off to visit in-laws for a week so i have way too much time on my hands. :)
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=samue...fzp2wCA&zoom=1
wow thats a bigass link.
i raise a beer for the carnage INCREDULOUS D is throwing down!
IMO, you're going about it all wrong. There is nothing wrong with 2H rage, the problem is there aren't enough of the "other" type of gladiators that they are meant to beat, mainly defensive minded gladiators. As has been mentioned before, Speed > Power > Defense > Speed. That is how this game is set up. It isn't a hard and fast rule, but a pretty good rule of thumb. So if you are looking to make 2H rage beat a DW rage, forget it, it won't happen and shouldn't happen at least not consistently. I realize everyone wants "their" favorite type of gladiator to be able to beat all builds, but that is bad game design. What I see as the problem right now is defense is VERY hard to pull off. I've been trying with Chuck Norris (semi-defensive theatrics) and Pharaoh (defensive war) with moderate success. I make A LOT of gladiators pass out which is great and I love doing that, but I just about ALWAYS lose to 2H gladiators (especially rage), I don't even need to read the fight if I see a giant weapon in their hand! :) I think this is great and working as intended. The problem is not enough players are running defensive gladiators and that is probably a combination of them not being interested in that and it not being very easy to do with only mediocre results.
We are seeing a similar issue up in Primus right now, there are so many hardcore players who love rage that Primus is full of them. I don't think this is because they are better, I think this is because more hardcore long term players simply have an affinity for rage (hence the Rage united guild, there aren't any other guilds for War or Theatrics). Right now the top 3-4 spots are Rage and then a wall of War below them which in turn is shutting out the Theatrics gladiators who would be laying the smack down on the Rage glads if they could break through the War wall. Was this planned by the Rage guild or just coincidence? I'm thinking the latter, but it is working out well for them. Crow and Oedi need to form an alliance and work together I think! ;)
Make defense a much more viable option and the playing field really changes and fixes what many deem broken.
Shhhhh! Your not allowed to know our grand scheme. :p
it's true, defensive glads need a bit of help. DW power is also good vs them though so i do feel that 2H still is lacking (both rage and war)
i'm still confused as to why a speed 1.1 maul swings once a round opposed to a consistent 4 or 5 from someone wielding two speed 1.15 bastard swords and comparable agility. does 0.05 speed really make that much of a difference? because i see none between speed 1.0 and 1.1.
I have no problem with that, what i am comparing is power duel wield rage vs power two-handed rage in my above book of a post, they should be fairly equal but they aren't.Quote:
Speed > Power > Defense > Speed
Caine, Summit, Belgarad are all examples of power duel wielders that are rocking right now, two-handed power users are no where close to them.
SUMMIT's WYRMWOOD SPLITTER sails through the air with wicked intent.
The blow to BELGARAD's shoulder lands with mighty force! (+1334 Damage)
That says it all to me, a normal hit after 1 sunder armor 3 hits earlier, and that's a duel wielder that's going to attack 3-5 times per round, if a one handed weapon can hit that hard yet attack that many times per round then we should see 2 handers hitting for 2600-3200 with a normal hit (just like the above was a normal hit) just to keep the status quot and to be competitive against them.
Btw Summit attacked 3 times that round the damages where: 819, 384, 1334 NONE of those where rampages, if he would have rampaged on the next hit it would have been possible for him to have done 4K damage in one round, no two handed rage is pulling that off as far as i know. And i am not picking on Summit here we have seen Caine, Belgarad, Lulwut (when he duel wields) all pull off rounds like this.
So add in now that they do more potential damage per round and they have initiative over two handed rage, I really don't see how you can say power duel wield rage is equal to power two-handed rage.
Theatrics beats speed rage, those power duel wield rages above (Summit, Caine, Belgarad) eat theatrics alive, its why all the theatrics have been pushed out. No theatrics can meet their damage per hit so counter strike just doesn't really work on them.Quote:
Theatrics gladiators who would be laying the smack down on the Rage glads
Not sure what you're hoping for, but after the change my glads are losing A LOT more to 2H gladiators and I mean A LOT! It would be silly if they could attack more than twice a round with average hits being over 1000 HP at level 50, and I rarely see them attack only once a round. Those big 1000+ hits from one-handed rages are on the high side, not average, so I think it's all about balance, and to say 2H War needs a bump is just crazy talk, just last week 2H/Pole Arm War held the number 2-5 spots or something like that. Currently a 2H rage is on top in the blood games to boot!Quote:
it's true, defensive glads need a bit of help. DW power is also good vs them though so i do feel that 2H still is lacking (both rage and war)
That's because the vast majority of their fights are against War in heavy armor which a power rage gladiator has the upper hand. If speed ragers or speed theatrics were up there, they wouldn't be fairing so well. The War Wall is doing a great job at keeping the latter away. Take into account that most if not all of the ragers at the top are all cozy with each other cuddling between matches and are doing their best not to fight one another thus again improving their results. It's a great strategy and one I suspect will continue to do well until other managers form their own alliances against them.Quote:
Caine, Summit, Belgarad are all examples of power duel wielders that are rocking right now, two-handed power users are no where close to them.
An offensive Theatrics with blades or exotic is not going to lose very often against Rage if run correctly. An axe and mace theatrics or semi-defensive Theatrics will have more trouble with a power Rager since they'll attack less when counter striking but I still believe the Theatrics glad will have the upper hand against Rage. Theatrics have been pushed down by War for the most part, not Rage.Quote:
Theatrics beats speed rage, those power duel wield rages above (Summit, Caine, Belgarad) eat theatrics alive.
Dainoji I am not disagreeing with what your saying, I just have seen it different with my guys in the primus top 10, Ormgar is the best speed theatrics right now and i know Oedi knows what he is doing with him, but Belgarad has no fear of him at all, i am fairly sure Bel wins more then 50% of his matches against him, if Rampage hits the fight is over unless he knocks belgarad out, if rampage doesnt trigger or misses it just takes 2-3 rounds rather then 1. So far today bel is 2-1 vs Ormgar.
If anything I think maybe the numbers have gotten too big and that is skewing everything, 4k damage potential in 1 round, that's crazy to me.
I preferred it when the 1k club was hard to get into!
now that we are seeing these:
LULWUT - 3756 Damage vs Malar (Activated attack + Old Injury) - One-Handed
Arg - 2272 Damage vs Snotshot (Activated Attack + prior Sunder Armor + Old Injury)
INCREDULOUS D - 2004 Damage vs LARSHAMIR FURYO (Activated Attack)
3.7K damage with a one handed weapon in one hit??? sure its rare but damn should it even happen at all? That is a full 1k more damage then the largest amount of life i have seen on any glad ever. Defensive glads don't have a chance in my opinion due to the inflation of damage numbers in the past 2-3 months patches, and i mean defensive glads, not Warriors with 2 handed swords who have Last Stand. And now offensive glads fighting each other a lot of the time come down to who's LS goes off first <-- yes i mean you loosing and your LS goes off first makes you win cause a lot of the time with the LS bonus you will be able to hit them hard enough that you do enough damage that their last stand doesn't go off, Zmash has won this way many, many times.
But anyways maybe the numbers have just inflated too much i think is the point i am trying to make.
Pay no attention to hits where a injury is present. Many managers are lazy/just don't care/whatever and let their injuries stack up until they are level 4 or 5 where you could then spit on them and do 500+ damage. The higher the level of the injury the higher the damage bonus from hitting it to the point where level 3-5 injuries have pretty big damage multipliers in the 2x-4x range from what I've seen. As far as I'm concerned a hit to an injury shouldn't even be apart of Apoc's big hit club.Quote:
LULWUT - 3756 Damage vs Malar (Activated attack + Old Injury) - One-Handed
Arg - 2272 Damage vs Snotshot (Activated Attack + prior Sunder Armor + Old Injury)
INCREDULOUS D - 2004 Damage vs LARSHAMIR FURYO (Activated Attack)
I have a lot of respect for Oedi, but seems to me he's regrouping right now. I think he even mentioned wanting to switch everyone over to axes and maces which would be a huge mistake I think. I'm not sure what style Ormgar is using against Belgarad but if he is counter striking him that may be the reason since the slower weapons Belgarad is using hit harder thus the "1 for 1" clearly favors Belgarad. I remember Solstice used to change things up and go lunge or slash against slower opponents so he'd get in a lot more attacks up front in lieu of more attacks overall, granted that was awhile ago but I use a similar strategy now and have very good results. I also think Ormgar is missing some key theatrics skills for the current climate in Primus, mainly Show Off and Heavy Scarring choosing instead to dip very deep into the Rage tree. With so many mangers favoring Trugs right now Show Off would be a killer against them. Who cares if they have 2000+ health if they only have 70 endurance going berserk, they'll pass out before they can win if you can manage to make the fight last a few rounds. I have some new kids making their way up that will soon grace Primus where I'm pretty sure they'll surprise many a veteran.Quote:
Ormgar is the best speed theatrics right now and i know Oedi knows what he is doing with him
It's just my opinion, but I think there are still so many builds undiscovered with the recent addition of the races. When they first came out a few managers swapped around for a few fights and then bailed on some and favored others. On such little data one can not write off a race unless you are going by gut feeling alone which is hardly scientific. Take the Elaar for instance, almost nobody is running them up in Primus. Are they really that underpowered? Doubtful, but their abilities are less obvious so they are harder to grasp. I think in the long haul the ability to keep a hold of your weapon and not get dealt crits as often will pay off after 100s of fights. A little off topic but I think with so many unexplored possibilities it is to soon and unfair to say things are...unfair. :)
I made separate categories for that reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dainoji
I gotta agree with this. With the cost of changing races though i'm not keen on swapping around to see what works well for various styles. All I have learned so far is this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dainoji
Sniveler - was nice for speed rage, but tanks with warcry and counterstrikes punished the low health. I'm curious to try on a 2H rage, but not game to spend 130T if it doesnt work out.
Dunder - isnt great for 2H rage. initiative penalty just makes nearly all their matchups worse
Trug - good for 2H rage, but like you said, they tire out quickly. my trugs run out of steam pretty fast against tanks and the few theatrics with show off. also the anti-bleed doesnt seem that handy on something with paper thin armor.
Yup plenty of builds to still see, I do wonder though if any build can eat those power shots from Summit, Caine, Lulwut, or Belgarad and have a chance, 1300 a pop with 1 handers???
I have one coming up myself Cel, a sprite who will eventually have 175+ agil, 140+ pres (and is size 88 to boot) who has show off and Heavy scarring to 10 already. Should be a defensive monster when i am done who will either bleed you or steal all your energy to win (hell i might put 100 fights on her today just to see if i can get her up to these rages and see how she does).
I like the Spites, so far I see them being used by War and Theatrics, I'm curious how they would do as a Rage. Not sure if their defensive bonus gets nullified by berserk but if it doesn't I wonder if a new kind of Rage build is lurking about. Maybe get some absurd level of agility and use slash or lunge if berserk negates the defensive buff...hmmmm.
Dont think i said all, but anyway i changed Narvalo from blades to axe/mace and went from 59% W/L to 61% W/L.Quote:
switch everyone over to axes and maces which would be a huge mistake I think
And Danioji why dont you bring Chuck up to primus and show us how its done, i admit im stuck with my theatrics atm.
Don't think I'd bet the farm on a 2% increase but it's better than a stick in the eye! ;)
Chuck Norris is a pseudo-defensive theatrics experiment, don't think he's the guy to beat up on all the power Ragers in Primus, but I have a couple other new kids making their way up which just might do the trick! Stay tuned!
Ok in 1 hour I hope to get a challenge threw to Delta/Summit with Cel and see for myself if a fast attacking theatrics can over come these new duel wield rages, the glove is thrown! :) If the challenge goes threw :/
Cel is a sprite with the following stats/skills:
Str 83 Int 79 Agil 175 Stam 97 Size 88 Pres 120 Chi 81
with the following skills at 10 Blades, GV, Armor Movement, Show Off, Heavy Scarring, and then at 8 called shot, signature move, finishing blow
With 2 daggers and the 10 armor movement and the 175 agil i'd like to think she is one of the fastest things on the sands right now although she is 3 trains away form 186 agil (got to love those +10 achievements) so she will be even faster once those are done. Also with the 175 agil and being a sprite with 10 create distance her defense should be rather high.
The answer to that question is 100% yes, I'll tell you that now. Daggers might cause you trouble though on your way up since you'll meet your fair share of war glads as well.Quote:
Ok in 1 hour I hope to get a challenge threw to Delta/Summit with Cel and see for myself if a fast attacking theatrics can over come these new duel wield rages, the glove is thrown! If the challenge goes threw :/
I think the word you're looking for is SPITE. Unless of course CEL is a fairy. ;)Quote:
Cel is a sprite
I look forward to seeing how you fare in the top 10.
if you're testing and cant get through to delta, wargh is also a speed rage, but not as juiced.
Delta ate her alive :(
R O U N D 1
>> DELTA SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
CEL ducks low then ferociously slashes upward with her BLOODSIDIAN CUTTER.
Savage lunge above DELTA's waist punctures a kidney and destroys all healthy tissue in the blades path! (+109 Damage)
Resisted Stun Effect!
CEL bounces and skips around DELTA.
CEL looks to maim DELTA.
Towering strike to DELTA's forehead punctures the skull and tickles his brain! (+41 Damage)
CEL tries to maim her opponent with her BLOODSIDIAN CUTTER.
Small shot to DELTA's spine does very little. (+11 Damage)
DELTA runs around as if on fire.
DELTA whips the razor edge of his VORPAL SLASHER across in a deadly slash.
DELTA looks to seriously damage CEL's armour! (-Sunder Armour-)
Stomach is torn open by the mighty blow! (+173 Damage)
CEL looks at the crowd as she speeds around the battle field.
CEL deftly twists her MASTERWORK DIRK forward, executing a devastating thrust.
Mammoth thrust tears into DELTA's tricep and removes two-thirds of it! (+49 Damage)
Resisted Can Not Defend Effect!
CEL spins around, swinging her BLOODSIDIAN CUTTER in a powerful and deadly arc.
CEL aims for DELTA's head.
Monstrous lunge into the upper arm creates a clean opening...blood spills to the ground in waterfall like fashion! (+75 Damage)
Resisted Stun Effect!
CEL attempts to kill her adversary.
CEL goes for DELTA's elbow and connects with her BLOODSIDIAN CUTTER creating excellent damage! (+61 Damage)
Resisted Stun Effect!
DELTA moves and leaps around CEL.
DELTA attacks out-of-control.
DELTA tries to knock CEL down with the force of the blow! (-Barreling Attack-)
CEL winces as she is knocked off balance and sent to the ground!
DELTA connects with his VORPAL SLASHER creating beastly damage! (+155 Damage)
DELTA strikes at CEL and seeks to stab his adversary.
DELTA roars uncontrollably as she attacks! (-Rampage-)
DELTA's attack lands on CEL's shoulder blade causing beastly damage! (+700 Damage)
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 4
DELTA attempts to stab CEL with his VORPAL SLASHER.
Savage lunge above CEL's waist punctures a kidney and destroys all healthy tissue in the blades path! (+161 Damage)
R O U N D 2
CEL picks herself up off the ground!
DELTA looks at the crowd as he charges around the battle field.
DELTA makes an off handed attack.
DELTA howls like a wild animal and lashes out.
DELTA connects with his WYRMBONE SLICER causing freakish injuries! (+133 Damage)
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
DELTA brings his weapon down only to be blocked by the Enforcer!
The fight lasted 24 seconds!
and lost to wargh:
R O U N D 1
>> WARGH SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
CEL moves with uncontrolled energy around the arena.
CEL makes an off handed attack.
CEL makes a weak attack with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
CEL goes for WARGH's skull and connects with her MASTERWORK DIRK inflicting minor damage. (+41 Damage)
CEL makes a poorly timed attack using her BLOODSIDIAN CUTTER.
The blow lands on WARGH's forearm with trivial force. (+18 Damage)
CEL looks at the crowd as she speeds around the battle field.
CEL seeks to stick her BLOODSIDIAN CUTTER deep into WARGH.
Shot to the head removes an eye along with part of the brain! (+107 Damage)
Resisted Stun Effect!
CEL jumps and skips around WARGH.
CEL goes for a wicked slashing attack with her BLOODSIDIAN CUTTER.
CEL's attack lands on WARGH's waist causing considerable damage! (+17 Damage)
WARGH attacks as if possessed.
WARGH tries to knock CEL down with the force of the blow! (-Barreling Attack-)
CEL screams as she gets knocked to the ground by the massive shot!
WARGH goes for CEL's spine and connects with his HEROIC GLADIUS creating considerable damage! (+74 Damage)
CEL moves around on the ground looking for an opening to strike.
CEL attempts a poorly planned attack with her BLOODSIDIAN CUTTER.
Weak strike to WARGH's lower thigh spears the target, but draws a very small amount of blood. (+35 Damage)
CEL readies a strike from the ground.
CEL advances on WARGH and seeks to cripple him.
CEL lands a strike on WARGH's forehead inflicting modest damage! (+21 Damage)
WARGH howls like a wild animal and lashes out with his HEROIC GLADIUS.
WARGH roars uncontrollably as she attacks! (-Rampage-)
WARGH's attack lands on CEL's hand causing beastly damage! (+689 Damage)
WARGH dashes frantically back and forth.
WARGH whips around with his off hand.
WARGH lashes out like an untamed creature and attacks with his HEROIC GLADIUS.
CEL backs up a few inches as WARGH descends upon her! (-Shock & Awe-)
A prolific wound is opened on CEL's lower leg! (+116 Damage)
R O U N D 2
CEL gets stepped on as she tries to stand!
WARGH's MASTERWORK BASTARD SWORD twists into a devastating slash.
Expert attack toward CEL's shoulder severs several muscles making it nearly impossible to swing! (+86 Damage)
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
CEL readies a strike from the ground.
CEL makes a clumsy attack with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
Soft slash to WARGH's hand does very little...it does scratch an itch however. (+8 Damage)
WARGH hustles madly around his opponent.
WARGH strikes forward viciously, his MASTERWORK BASTARD SWORD moving with amazing speed.
WARGH looks to seriously damage CEL's armour! (-Sunder Armour-)
WARGH smiles after the beastly hit to CEL's torso! (+307 Damage)
WARGH roars like a caged lion before attacking.
WARGH's attack lands on CEL's sternum inflicting beastly wounds! (+218 Damage)
WARGH seeks to slice his opponent.
WARGH smiles after the towering hit to CEL's upper arm! (+182 Damage)
CEL moves around on the ground looking for an opening to strike.
CEL decides to attack with the other hand.
CEL seeks to lance her opponent.
Strike lands just below WARGH's jaw...nice shot to the neck! (+18 Damage)
CEL moves around on the ground looking for an opening to strike.
CEL tries to skewer her adversary with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
Heavy blow to WARGH's mouth lands with ample force! (+16 Damage)
CEL attempts to strike from the ground.
CEL clumsily lashes out with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
Glancing strike to the head. That's all. (+11 Damage)
CEL moves around on the ground looking for an opening to strike.
CEL strikes back.
Decent strike to WARGH's face leaves a small hole in the wake of the weapon! (+72 Damage)
CEL moves around on the ground looking for an opening to strike.
CEL makes a wild attack with her BLOODSIDIAN CUTTER.
There are scattered boos after the trivial strike to the neck. (+18 Damage)
R O U N D 3
CEL regains her ground and stands!
WARGH looks to strike CEL again, however the Enforcer steps in and spares the bested CEL!
The fight lasted 18 seconds!
Try again, you got dropped to the ground which reduced your number of attacks per round. Might not happen next time. You might consider your rapiers again or gladius as you need to hit him at least twice with your daggers for every time he hits you.
Cant now she has fallen down to 30th place after all the losses, i don't think the new duel wield rages are beatable by anyone but another duel wield rage, they just do too much damage per round.
I did get her 10th agility train after those so her stats now are:
Attributes:
Str 83 Int 76 Agil 186 Stam 95 Size 88 Pres 129 Chi 81
Going to do Pres now to get it to 144, should get her bleeds to huge numbers so she will have a chance vs warriors. I don't see anyway to bet the duel wield rages with her though, even with nearly 1800 hit points they can take her out in 2-3 hits. Interesting though she destroys two-handed rage, they never attack basically vs her.
2nd fight with Wargh after changing to rapier/dagger and getting the above increase to agil:
R O U N D 1
>> WARGH SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
CEL moves and leaps around the arena.
CEL steps close, attempting to sink her VORPAL PIERCER into WARGH's flesh.
Shot knocks WARGH's head back by pushing on the inside of his skull! (+99 Damage)
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
CEL tries to spear WARGH with her VORPAL PIERCER.
Someone from the crowd screams as WARGH is hit in the face! (+45 Damage)
CEL tries to lance her adversary.
Someone from the crowd screams as WARGH is hit in the upper arm! (+44 Damage)
CEL moves furiously trying to gain the advantage.
CEL moves of a block and attacks.
Shot to the head removes an eye along with part of the brain! (+83 Damage)
CEL decides to attack with the other hand.
CEL looks to wound her opponent.
Minor strike under WARGH's left eye, that was close. (+15 Damage)
WARGH twists his entire body into a brutal slash with his MASTERWORK BASTARD SWORD.
WARGH is aiming at CEL's head.
WARGH looks to seriously damage CEL's armour! (-Sunder Armour-)
Slash to CEL's right eye, vitreous fluid spews forth! (+86 Damage)
WARGH moves towards CEL and looks to kill her.
WARGH tries to knock CEL down with the force of the blow! (-Barreling Attack-)
CEL drops to the ground grabbing her wound!
Devastating slash to the shoulder almost removes the arm as a huge spray of blood covers the crowd! (+285 Damage)
CEL cries aloud as her body is sent crashing to the ground by the attack!
WARGH hustles uncontrollably back and forth.
WARGH tries to injure his enemy with his MASTERWORK BASTARD SWORD.
CEL backs up a few inches as WARGH descends upon her! (-Shock & Awe-)
Awesome shot to CEL's ribs gashes the side open and makes it difficult for CEL to keep internal organs 'internal'! (+166 Damage)
WARGH looks to an off handed strike to deal damage.
WARGH jumps into the air bringing his HEROIC GLADIUS crashing down on CEL.
Mammoth thrust tears into CEL's tricep and removes two-thirds of it! (+86 Damage)
CEL tries to attack from the ground.
CEL attempts to poke WARGH with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
CEL's MASTERWORK DIRK connects with WARGH's chin causing magnificent damage! (+77 Damage)
CEL readies a strike from the ground.
CEL whips around with her off hand.
CEL makes an awkward attack with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
Weak slash to the knee removes the top layer of skin and hair. (+10 Damage)
CEL attempts to strike from the ground.
CEL storms WARGH and seeks to poke her adversary.
CEL's VORPAL PIERCER tastes victory and inflicts mighty injuries on WARGH's cheek! (+51 Damage)
Resisted Stun Effect!
CEL readies a strike from the ground.
CEL seeks to slice WARGH with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
The blow lands on WARGH's eye with tiny force. (+13 Damage)
R O U N D 2
CEL picks herself up off the ground!
CEL moves with uncontrolled energy around the arena.
CEL attacks prematurely with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
CEL is aiming at WARGH's head.
Minor strike under WARGH's left eye, that was close. (+23 Damage)
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
WARGH hurtles like wild fire back and forth.
WARGH decides to attack with the other hand.
WARGH makes an overhead slashing attack with his HEROIC GLADIUS.
WARGH looks to seriously damage CEL's armour! (-Sunder Armour-)
WARGH's HEROIC GLADIUS connects with CEL's sternum causing moderate damage! (+54 Damage)
WARGH runs around as if on fire.
WARGH looks to cripple his opponent with his MASTERWORK BASTARD SWORD.
Jagged slash to the lower back! (+58 Damage)
CEL's VORPAL PIERCER darts out toward WARGH.
Large gash to the lower arm...several muscles are damaged! (+28 Damage)
CEL moves with unbridled energy.
CEL seeks to stick WARGH with her VORPAL PIERCER.
CEL smiles after the solid hit to WARGH's chest! (+39 Damage)
CEL bounces and springs around the arena.
CEL extends her arm, thrusting her MASTERWORK DIRK forward with deadly accuracy.
Quick strike to the knee pierces WARGH's flesh and damages the joint! (+57 Damage)
R O U N D 3
CEL is no longer affected by Shock & Awe
CEL steps close, attempting to sink her VORPAL PIERCER into WARGH's flesh.
CEL's attack lands on WARGH's forehead inflicting crippling injuries! (+99 Damage)
CEL pelts uncontrollably around WARGH.
CEL uses her VORPAL PIERCER to take a masterful slash at WARGH.
CEL goes for WARGH's head and connects with her VORPAL PIERCER causing prodigious wounds! (+99 Damage)
CEL makes a poorly executed attack with is MASTERWORK DIRK.
A disappointing wound is opened on WARGH's ribs. (+38 Damage)
CEL whips around with her off hand.
CEL swings her MASTERWORK DIRK in an arc toward WARGH.
Decent strike penetrates WARGH's bicep creating a painful hole! (+50 Damage)
CEL looks at the crowd as she whirls around the battle field.
CEL looks to pierce her opponent.
CEL aims for WARGH's head.
Freakish hit to the back of the arm brings a shrill cry of pain and anguish that echoes throughout the arena! (+82 Damage)
R O U N D 4
>> WARGH SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
CEL's MASTERWORK DIRK wavers as she strikes at WARGH.
Lacking heart, the lunge just manages to break the skin on WARGH's shoulder. (+38 Damage)
CEL overtakes WARGH and looks to pierce her enemy.
CEL lands a strike on WARGH's waist creating ample damage! (+27 Damage)
CEL flies around as if on fire.
CEL looks to spear WARGH with her VORPAL PIERCER.
CEL
WARGH
1053/1788
1053/1788
0/1782
0/1782
79/95
79/95
73/130
73/130
Attack Power
+15
Bleeding
324
Attack Power
-10
CEL's VORPAL PIERCER connects with WARGH's cheekbone inflicting stalwart injuries! (+99 Damage)
CEL brings her weapon down only to be blocked by the Enforcer!
The fight lasted 42 seconds!
1 more vs Wargh and i'll stop now, damn Wargh was stunned 5 times in this one, and i think its a new bleed record for Cel
R O U N D 1
>> WARGH SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
CEL seeks to skewer WARGH with her VORPAL PIERCER.
Freakish shot at WARGH spears his shoulder and removes the arm from its socket leaving it to dangle helplessly! (+82 Damage)
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
CEL dances and springs around the arena.
CEL's VORPAL PIERCER wavers as she strikes at WARGH.
WARGH is knocked back as his armour absorbs the hit!
CEL pelts right at her adversary.
CEL seeks to impale her adversary with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
Decent strike to WARGH's face leaves a small hole in the wake of the weapon! (+41 Damage)
Resisted Can Not Defend Effect!
CEL nearly overextends herself as she jabs her VORPAL PIERCER forward.
WARGH's armour deflects the blow!
CEL moves with uncontrolled energy around the arena.
CEL counter attacks with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
Strike slides past WARGH's guard, but with little effect. (+22 Damage)
CEL jumps and hops around the arena.
CEL seeks to stick her adversary.
CEL goes for WARGH's nose and connects with her MASTERWORK DIRK causing considerable injuries! (+23 Damage)
CEL looks at the crowd as she hurtles around the battle field.
CEL charges at WARGH and looks to impale him.
CEL aims for WARGH's head.
WARGH is knocked back as his armour absorbs the hit!
CEL flashes like wild fire back and forth.
CEL attempts to hurt her adversary.
CEL fumbles about with her weapon!
CEL looks at the crowd as she whirls around the battle field.
CEL looks to an off handed strike to deal damage.
CEL seeks to jab her adversary with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
Decent strike to WARGH's face leaves a small hole in the wake of the weapon! (+23 Damage)
Resisted Stun Effect!
CEL speeds around as if on fire.
CEL deftly stabs her VORPAL PIERCER forward in a display of great skill.
A excellent wound is opened on WARGH's head! (+53 Damage)
R O U N D 2
WARGH is becoming noticeably weaker from blood loss!!!
CEL dances and leaps around the arena.
CEL lunges, her VORPAL PIERCER moving with deadly accuracy.
A excellent wound is opened on WARGH's neck! (+81 Damage)
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
WARGH has minor cuts and bruises on his body!
CEL looks to poke her opponent.
CEL looks to blind WARGH with one of her signature moves! (-Signature Move: Blind-)
CEL jabs a finger in WARGH's eye!
CEL speeds madly back and forth.
CEL decides to attack with the other hand.
CEL's razor sharp MASTERWORK DIRK flashes toward WARGH with deadly accuracy.
CEL's MASTERWORK DIRK connects with WARGH's hand causing giant wounds! (+50 Damage)
CEL looks to an off handed strike to deal damage.
CEL makes an obvious attack with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
WARGH's armour absorbs the hit!
CEL jumps and skips around the arena.
CEL whips around with her off hand.
CEL tries to slice off a few pounds with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
Nice hit into the ear almost punctures the ear drum! (+41 Damage)
R O U N D 3
WARGH is no longer affected by Signature Move
WARGH tries to skewer his enemy.
CEL kicks WARGH in the chest knocking him out of striking range! (-Create Distance-)
CEL stabs her MASTERWORK DIRK toward WARGH.
Piercing shot through the side of WARGH's neck...what a fine shot! (+41 Damage)
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
WARGH takes a step back to catch a quick breather.
CEL speeds like wild fire around WARGH.
CEL strikes back with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
CEL smiles after the solid hit to WARGH's lower arm! (+22 Damage)
CEL looks at the crowd as she pelts around the battle field.
CEL whips around with her off hand.
CEL advances on WARGH and attempts to wound her opponent.
CEL's MASTERWORK DIRK tastes victory and inflicts beastly damage on WARGH's upper back! (+81 Damage)
Resisted Can Not Defend Effect!
WARGH has some pretty nasty cuts and bruises on his body!!
CEL makes an off handed attack.
CEL attempts to kill her adversary with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
Someone from the crowd screams as WARGH is hit in the stomach! (+22 Damage)
CEL flashes around as if on fire.
CEL makes an off handed attack.
CEL looks to jab her enemy.
Swift strike to the eye almost blinds the poor fool! (+23 Damage)
Resisted Stun Effect!
CEL flies right at her enemy.
CEL attacks WARGH and tries to lance him.
Towering strike to WARGH's forehead punctures the skull and tickles his brain! (+53 Damage)
CEL swings her MASTERWORK DIRK at WARGH.
Jab into WARGH's armpit...the blade point can be seen protruding from the shoulder! (+40 Damage)
CEL steps back, then lunges forward with her MASTERWORK DIRK.
CEL's MASTERWORK DIRK connects with WARGH's jaw creating considerable injuries! (+23 Damage)
CEL runs frantically around the arena.
CEL's VORPAL PIERCER viciously slices at WARGH.
CEL tries to fake WARGH out with a few twirls of her weapon! (-Feint-)
CEL connects with her VORPAL PIERCER causing freakish wounds! (+80 Damage)
CEL pelts like wild fire around her adversary.
CEL moves off a riposte and strikes.
Deft swing strikes the neck...maybe not fatal but it's sure distracting! (+53 Damage)
R O U N D 4
WARGH is pleading with the Enforcer to spare his life!!!
WARGH lets forth the roar of a lion and prepares to leave it all on the sands! (-Last Stand-)
>> WARGH SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
CEL dashes uncontrollably to and fro.
CEL looks to spear her opponent.
Quick strike to the knee pierces WARGH's flesh and damages the joint! (+56 Damage)
>> CEL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
WARGH decides to attack with the other hand.
WARGH seeks to puncture his enemy.
CEL kicks WARGH in the chest knocking him out of striking range! (-Create Distance-)
WARGH moves with uncontrolled energy around the arena.
WARGH makes an off handed attack.
WARGH's HEROIC GLADIUS arcs toward CEL.
Smooth slash to CEL's hip...nice crunching sound! (+50 Damage)
WARGH plunges his HEROIC GLADIUS into CEL.
WARGH looks to seriously damage CEL's armour! (-Sunder Armour-)
Nice puncture to the back just grazes the spine! (+60 Damage)
WARGH attempts to jab his opponent with his MASTERWORK BASTARD SWORD.
WARGH gets tangled up in a web only he sees.
WARGH speeds furiously around his opponent.
WARGH clumsily lashes out with his MASTERWORK BASTARD SWORD.
WARGH tries to knock CEL down with the force of the blow! (-Barreling Attack-)
WARGH's attack causes an old veteran in the audience to shake his head.
CEL executes a devastating slash with her VORPAL PIERCER.
A nicely executed lunge pierces WARGH's forearm severing a major artery! (+82 Damage)
CEL moves with unbridled energy.
CEL charges at WARGH and attempts to poke him.
Powerful thrust to the outside of the neck creates difficulty in retrieving the weapon! (+99 Damage)
CEL slashes about.
Heavy blow to WARGH's elbow lands with moderate force! (+28 Damage)
Resisted Can Not Defend Effect!
CEL slashes about with her VORPAL PIERCER.
CEL
WARGH
1678/1788
1678/1788
0/1782
0/1782
79/95
79/95
96/130
96/130
Bleeding
520
Attack Power
-65
Decent strike penetrates WARGH's bicep creating a painful hole! (+40 Damage)
• Bleeding: 18 health per round
CEL looks to strike WARGH again, however the Enforcer steps in and spares the bested WARGH!
The odds makers quietly whisper to one another and chuckle softly!
The fight lasted 46 seconds!
Got to wait and get more fight tokens now, that was my spare trophies stash to do those, will have to see that increase in agil maybe made the difference, the fights vs wargh where totally different after it.
My Power Theatrics Siam has also succeded to score a win against Wargh recently... I'm deeply convinced that offensive Theatrics are the best style to beat the DW ragers that hold the top those days !
offensive theatrics eats my speed ragers. got nasty when they use counterattack against wargh as a sniveler as it voided the initiative boost.
not sure how they'd go vs power rage though. it's a style that i struggle against at times with speed rage :'(
So going back to this Two-Handed Rage discussion.
I am beginning to think to be successful as a two handed rage your going to need more stats then i ever thought before.
I am now thinking you need STR/STAM/SIZE/PRES/CHI as main stats with a decent Agil
STR has always been on the list the 200 str guys are hitting very hard
STAM/SIZE your not going to go first so you need a huge hit point pool to survive them attacking first, these two stats give you hit points
PRES - Overwhelming presence is looking more and more important to me, its three stats are size, pres, chi
CHI - again needed for OP and for making sure your 1 - 2 hits a round are crits
Agil is just to have some sort of initiative so hopefully you get to attack at some point
Now looking at my 2 hand rages, they are all small and have low pres, i think this is really hurting them as i see none of the hits the high pres rages are getting.