Those poor outclassed theatrics gladiators...

[Dainoji]

with the shitty skill tree and sub par skills somehow have secured 5 of the top 10 spots in the arena! Wake up War and Rage masters, it's time to put some BAM into your gladiators and beat back this hostile takeover!!! :)

[Team Kaos]

They may be Theatrics in style but they are far from being Theatrics in skill.
Orgmar has only 43 Theatrics skills
Farum has only 43 and
Narvalo has just 30....I think calling them Theatrics is a bit of a reach actually

Solstice has 72 and
Power Slave 75 and both have a few skill points unused

They are more Rage and War then they are Theatrics in skills

[Dainoji]

Hahaha! I knew that would be the response! Glad you didn't let me down Kaos! I'll remind you that Solstice did just fine for a very, very long time with his 72 Theatrics skills! ;) Besides, I think it's pretty obvious that gladiators are meant to dip into other trees, otherwise why is that option available? Just like in the real world, the more one specializes the less that specialist is able to handle broader tasks, but excels at a specific task or two. I think the arena is the same. Many of the rage gladiators are more or less tank busters but have always had a hard time dealing with theatrics gladiators. Defensive tanks can do quite well against non-tank War gladiators and theatrics gladiators but can't handle the majority of rage gladiators.

Pick your poison, the only reason Ormgar and Co. are doing well right now is they've spec'd to fight what was up top - rage and classic theatrics gladiators. Their weakness is war gladiators which weren't and aren't well represented up top, but if they manage to get off their ass and move up the rankings you'll see a different story. Alpha II and Eruption are closest to doing this, but they don't seem too concerned with moving up based on their challenge history.

[crow]

Hahaha! Their weakness is war gladiators which weren't and aren't well represented up top, but if they manage to get off their ass and move up the rankings you'll see a different story. Alpha II and Eruption are closest to doing this, but they don't seem too concerned with moving up based on their challenge history.

I have to admit, yes I have never been overly concerned about having a glad on the top. The few times I wanted it, Eruption beat Solstice and Ormgar a few times (and others also) and did not move up at all in the rankings. Also happened when Echo was near the top, won several fights against solstice and whoever was around, but would not change position. So I lost interest and find more interest in fighting a wide variety of fighters and learn from those fights and tweak the strategies. But also I have sent in challenges for Eruption and not gotten them, alot in the last few weeks. Seems like he is getting avoided, because the glad being challenged ends up fighting a non challenge fight.
Quite honestly I feel like I am still learning this game, and I'm finding it more interesting training different types of glads and seeing how to make them successful.

[Team Kaos]

Well of course the game is designed to "dip" into any and all skill tree's, but again, I would not call Orgmar and co. classic Theatrics as you call them. They are indeed hybrid's and are more or less Theatrics by name only.


Many of the rage gladiators are more or less tank busters but have always had a hard time dealing with theatrics gladiators.

Very true, but that is a fault in the build. To build any gladiator to dominate just one opposing build is asking for trouble. The other Rage build seems to be as the cloning of Bird of Prey, which has it's own limits. They have difficulty beating War's with heavy armor and even harder time beating Theatrics. But do a great job at whooping up on other Rage's.

The War guys, Eruption, Anger Rising, Alpha, Beta, Spiritual Pain, Lords Fury and BloodBath II, are all 2 handed gladiators that have their limits vs 2 handed Rage's and hard hitting defensive Theatrics. Hard to climb the ladder with so many Rage's and Theatrics to navigate through.

As you can see Solstice is now in 4th, he just doesn't have enough power to land the big blows without being able to avoid taking the big shots despite his massive agility. His medium blows just don't add up enough vs a handful of huge crushing blows, and with GV that seems to be toned down recently he is unable to cause the huge bleed rates he once was vs medium and heavy armor. Same with Power Slave but he was never really a top of the top gladiator.

So after all that I will still say, without heavily dipping into Rage skills is is difficult to win vs the wide variety of gladiators. Orgmar and co. are demonstrating that right now. They are beating all types and for most dominating the fights.

[Dainoji]

I would not call Orgmar and co. classic Theatrics as you call them.

Neither would I, your theatrics gladiators were up at the top for quite some time and were the "classic" theatrics gladiators I was referring to.



So after all that I will still say, without heavily dipping into Rage skills is is difficult to win vs the wide variety of gladiators. Orgmar and co. are demonstrating that right now. They are beating all types and for most dominating the fights.

I'll disagree with you here, there are very few War gladiators getting matched up with Ormgar and Co. and when they are O & Co. usually lose with the occasional win. Wouldn't surprise me if he has them on avoid every fight because of it. The only gladiators he is whopping up on is the ones I mentioned earlier which they are designed to beat which is Thunder Lips style rage gladiators and Solstice style theatrics. I won't include Prey in that mix because while a different rage build he's like 10 levels outclassed last I checked and the not many other rage gladiators are around. It would appear my brothers have slipped recently.

I've yet to see someone try and pull off a defensive theatrics gladiator. With second wind, show off, and the ability to use a shield coupled with parry-X or counter attack I could see this as a viable option. Include create distance and I imagine there could be a lot of success there. Granted I think you'll have to go offensive first before transitioning into a defensive build since two of those skills are at the bottom of the tree.

That is one of the great things about this game, every time you think you got it licked someone comes up with a new strategy or build and the entire arena must adapt. Keeps you on your toes! :)

[Team Kaos]

I've yet to see someone try and pull off a defensive theatrics gladiator. With second wind, show off, and the ability to use a shield coupled with parry-X or counter attack I could see this as a viable option. Include create distance and I imagine there could be a lot of success there. Granted I think you'll have to go offensive first before transitioning into a defensive build since two of those skills are at the bottom of the tree.

Your right, we have not seen a build like this and probably because it is a gladiator that would be on the losing end of a lot of fights for a very long time until he dumps a ton of points in those upper skills. True I think it would probably be a great build, I just don't think anyone wants to have a gladiator with such a crummy record for such a long period until he begins to show some signs of ability.
I think it would be a skilled winning gladiator from the start, then take a nosedive while gaining the upper skills and then after a while make a move towards the upper end of the rankings.
Lots and lots of patience that I don't know if anyone would be willing to sacrifice.

[oedi]

id like to bring some numbers to the discussion, since dainoji seems to have the impression that orm is loosing every fight against war gladiators. And that i avoid them all the time. Neither is totally correct but got some truth to them. I do loose fights against eruption and alpha II, and i do most of the time avoid them, but my last loss was my challenge against alpha II. Ive picked a period from day 537 to 571, 35 fights. In that period ive met alpha II and eruption 10 times giveing me 6 wins and 4 losses(3 wins against both). Which in it self is a decent w/l ratio and gives me no reason to be scared. But in the 20 other fights ive had in the same period, ive not lost a singel fight, and thats the main reason for useing avoids vs Alpha II and eruption. Its a vanity thing i like to pad my own record.
I would also like to mention that Ormgar and Farum is quite diffrent when it comes to skill learns. Orm is of course heavy into rage skills, while farum is heavy into war skills. While mr. kaos sems to think its some kind of cheating only to pick the good theatrics skills, i think its good management to try and benefit from available skills in other specialities. To try and define my gladiators as something else than theatrics, is just a cowardly way to try and hide his own short comeings in the current environment. When we chose the theatrics speciality we had the same possibilities. You chose one path i chose another. You had your months of glory, (and i have no doubt about you comeing back with more glory days) and i have my weeks of glory atm. Im totally sure i wont be able to hold on to the throne as long as you did.
I will just mention one more thing before i end my rantings for today. I think Echo is very close to be that defensive theatric mentioned in the previous posts. I really admire his ability to win on endurance, i think Narvalo has lost atleast twice on endurance vs him. Im currently trying to get oedi into something similar, before i decide which path to choose for some of my young theatrics. I have not completed my search for the perfect theatrics gladiator.
Good luck in the arena and may the best theatric win:D

[Team Kaos]

Orm is of course heavy into rage skills, while farum is heavy into war skills. While mr. kaos sems to think its some kind of cheating only to pick the good theatrics skills, i think its good management to try and benefit from available skills in other specialities.

Don't think I ever referred to it as "cheating", just getting the point across that your boys are Theatrics by name only and actually have only 33% of Theatrics skills at best. Farum has just 20% Theatrics.
The trees are designed to pick mostly whatever skills you choose but as we all know, some skills are are inferior to others. Running a gladiator mainly on the Theatrics tree is amazingly difficult, and I am very much not afraid to say that the Rage skills and their amazing ability to land huge damage points allow for sub par gladiators to land a mere 2, 3 or 4 hits and win while getting peppered with 10, 15 even 20 shots that just don't carry the umph.

Your gladiators are indeed leaving a wake of bodies in their path, that' obvious, but they are less Theatrics then they are Rage or War, as the trio has barely touched the 3rd level of skills in their own tree. Narvalo does not have even a single skill in the 3rd tier.

And if you really want me to stir the bee hive....it's proving my point that the Theatrics skill tree is the weakest and most difficult of all the trees.

Yes, Solstice ruled the world for a short eternity but has any other "THEATRICS" actually had sustained success at the top? Echo? Azure? Power Slave? They can barely keep in the top 10.
While the War's and Rage's have taken up residence in the top 10. And until the (hybrid Theatrics) Orgmar and co. very recently stepped into the 3 spots in the top 10, Theatrics were represented by only Solstice and flashes of Azure, Power Slave, and Echo.

My beef is not and never was in the builds that anyone makes...that's the whole part of the game and creates a great diverse type of gladiator, but all skills from all the trees should have an equal ability to either cause, reduce or defend damage.

If everyone wants to begin the skill frenzy again, I'll be more then happy to dissect each of the skills and see who believes which skills are the best and least best. And I'll be more then confident that the Theatrics skills are near the bottom.

[crow]

I can agree that the 1st few skill tiers of the theatrics are the weakest of the 3, crowd pleaser, finishing blow, called shot, don't do much as far as battle is concerned. Yes called shot helps later if you are going high in KO skills. But the real skills are in the last few tiers, show off, scarring, Strength of the crowd, 2nd wind ( I have not gotten yet) add that with high GV, and Sig move, and you have a glad who can win either by exhaustion or handing out an ass whipping, or the KO. The pure theatrics just takes alot of time, I still have ALOT of work left to go on Echo.

[Dainoji]

The thing many leave out is a specialty is a lot more than just their skill tree. You have to look at them in their entirety which includes the weapons they can use the armor they can wear and their fighting styles. Whether or not the Theatrics skill tree is deficient is debatable and I'm certainly not in that camp, but the fact that they can wear medium armor, utilize defensive fighting styles and counter strike (possibly the best or one of the best fighting styles in the game) is a major reason why there are 5 in the top 10.