last stand

[oedi]

NORAVLA moves towards IRANAM and attempts to slash his enemy.
NORAVLA IRANAM
757/921hp 90/920hp


+5 attack power prone blind 2

Deep cut into IRANAM's arm opens the floodgates of blood! (+302 Damage)
• Possible Serious Injury
Iranam got 90 hp left, is prone and blinded for 2 turns, triggers last stand and 2 hits later Noravla is the loser.
Anyone else thinking Last stand might be a little over powered?
I got 2 of my theatrics with last stand now, soon a 3rd. I dont think its as powerful with light hitting theatrics as it is combined with the 2handers ragers wield, but its been a fun project. And 1 of my guys hit in the 5 hudreds on a good day, it might be a game winner for him.

[Dainoji]

I don't think it is overpowered at all. Sometimes when it goes off I get an attack in and sometimes I don't. It isn't much different than GV raking up 100+ or 200+ blood loss per round, or knockout ending the fight (albeit that happens less often). Iranam got lucky he landed his hit while blinded, he could have just as easily missed. There have been more fights than I can remember where Last Stand went off and the opponent's armor blocked the next hit.

Last Stand plus a 2H weapon certainly makes you nervous as the fight is coming to a close, but it isn't a sure thing by any means.

[oedi]

I said a little, and i dont think its a game breaker. But of all the the skill effects loosing to, last stand is the most annoying, for me atleast. Gratious wounds I agree is a very good skill, so good that i probably never will train a gladiator in a wepon skill that dont have a weapon that draw blood again. Knockout is something else entirely, of all the knockouts ive done, none has been done by my sole gladiator with the knockout skill(lvl5). All my knockouts has been done by random hits to the head and a freak knockout with no skill whatsoever.

[Dehodem]

Fine skill,

In average i guess it will add to your wn ratio like Knockdown or about it for the same lvl of skill.

Ok skill for sure but realy hard to analyse.

To do ti we need 2 glad identical in all ways (stats skil and all) but on whit and the other whitout Last stand

Also IF you don't invest in <Last stand u still have some point left so will those point invest elswhere will be more prolific (on win) than the same amoung of point all in Last stand.

I realy can't say.

Still very spectacular or devastating depending if your on the winning or losing side...

[Team Kaos]

You mean something ridiculous like this? Last Stand and Rampage ending fights when the gladiator is on 1/4 left of his health while bleeding almost 100 points.
War's and Theatrics are near death and lucky if the can hit with 1/3 of their normal power when injured so much, while Rage's who already get ridiculous benefits of always getting the fist swings in unless your glad is jacked in agility and using a small weapon are getting stronger and stronger and landing fight enders with insane precision. Especially when they do not even have a skill that increases their hit accuracy.

Rage never made sense in that aspect, big weapons, beserking Rage, mostly used at high energy and blood lust and they no doubt have the best accuracy of the 3 styles without any skills that boost them.

And no doubt Rampage, Last Stand are overpowered. And way over powered then GV which take many many hits to add up to 100 or 200. If GV caused 100- 200 bleed per hit every hit it would be a different story but it is no where near that.



R O U N D 1

MESSIAH lunges forward with his DARKSTEEL DAGGER and nearly falls off balance.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
825/836
825/836
702/702
702/702

There are scattered boos after the disappointing strike to the bicep. (+11 Damage)
>> MESSIAH SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 3
>> MAL VENTO SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
MESSIAH moves with uncontrolled energy around the arena.
MESSIAH swings his DARKSTEEL DAGGER in an arc toward MAL VENTO.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
785/836
785/836
702/702
702/702


Fair strike to the knee penetrates MAL VENTO's flesh and damages the joint! (+40 Damage)
MESSIAH looks at the crowd as he charges around the battle field.
MESSIAH jabs at MAL VENTO with his DARKSTEEL DAGGER.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
751/836
751/836
702/702
702/702


MESSIAH puts a hand up to his ear before attacking and the crowd roars his name! (-Strength of the Crowd-)
Fast slash to the chest...breathe deep, it'll feel better in a minute! (+34 Damage)
R O U N D 2
>> MAL VENTO SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
MESSIAH moves close, shoving the sharp tip of his DARKSTEEL DAGGER toward MAL VENTO.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
679/836
679/836
702/702
702/702


With a beastly thrust MAL VENTO's lower arm is mangled as the weapon enters and is then retracted! (+72 Damage)
>> MAL VENTO SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 5
MESSIAH overruns MAL VENTO and tries to puncture him.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
614/836
614/836
702/702
702/702

Bleeding
4
Attack Power
+35

MESSIAH goes for MAL VENTO's wrist and connects with his DARKSTEEL DAGGER creating significant damage! (+65 Damage)
MAL VENTO has small cuts and bruises from today's fight!
MESSIAH moves and hops around MAL VENTO.
MESSIAH spins around, brutally backhanding MAL VENTO with his DARKSTEEL DAGGER.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
554/836
554/836
702/702
702/702

Bleeding
20
Attack Power
+35

Savage lunge above MAL VENTO's waist punctures a kidney and destroys all healthy tissue in the blades path! (+60 Damage)
• Bleeding: 21 health per round

MESSIAH looks at the crowd as he darts around the battle field.
MESSIAH drives towards MAL VENTO and seeks to spear him.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
554/836
554/836
702/702
702/702

Bleeding
41
Attack Power
+35

MESSIAH looks to blind MAL VENTO with one of his signature moves! (-Signature Move: Blind-)
MESSIAH jabs a finger in MAL VENTO's eye!
MESSIAH flashes madly around MAL VENTO.
MESSIAH's DARKSTEEL DAGGER leaps through the air in a vicious slicing attack.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
481/836
481/836
702/702
702/702

Bleeding
41
Blinded
1
Attack Power
+35

MESSIAH smiles after the massive hit to MAL VENTO's hand! (+73 Damage)
• Attack Power: -5 (2 rounds)

MESSIAH attempts to lance his enemy with his DARKSTEEL DAGGER.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
396/836
396/836
702/702
702/702

Bleeding
41
Blinded
1
Attack Power
-5
Attack Power
+35

The blow to MAL VENTO's bicep lands with crippling force! (+85 Damage)
• Stunned: 1 round
• Bleeding: 21 health per round
• Attack Power: -10 (4 rounds)

MAL VENTO is bleeding from various wounds on his body!!
R O U N D 3
>> MAL VENTO SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
MESSIAH is no longer affected by Strength of the Crowd
MAL VENTO is no longer affected by Signature Move
MESSIAH jumps and skips around his opponent.
MESSIAH tries to pierce his enemy.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
265/836
265/836
702/702
702/702

Bleeding
66
Attack Power
-15

Shot knocks MAL VENTO's head back by pushing on the inside of his skull! (+65 Damage)
MESSIAH moves furiously trying to gain the advantage.
MESSIAH moves towards MAL VENTO and looks to puncture him.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
289/836
289/836
702/702
702/702

Bleeding
82
Attack Power
-15

MESSIAH's DARKSTEEL DAGGER connects with MAL VENTO's groin causing titanic damage! (+60 Damage)
• Attack Power: -20 (5 rounds)

>> MESSIAH SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
MAL VENTO can't take much more of this beating!!!
MAL VENTO lets forth the roar of a lion and prepares to leave it all on the sands! (-Last Stand-)
MAL VENTO's razor sharp DARKSTEEL GREAT SWORD flashes toward MESSIAH with deadly accuracy.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
289/836
289/836
328/702
328/702

Bleeding
82
Attack Power
-35

MAL VENTO roars uncontrollably as he attacks! (-Rampage-)
Deep cut into MESSIAH's arm opens the floodgates of blood! (+375 Damage)
• Bleeding: 6 health per round

>> MESSIAH SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 3
MESSIAH has taken some heavy damage from this fight!!
MAL VENTO dashes around as if on fire.
MAL VENTO executes a devastatingly powerful thrust with his DARKSTEEL GREAT SWORD.
MAL VENTO
MESSIAH
289/836
289/836
0/702
0/702

Bleeding
82
Attack Power
-35
Bleeding
6

MAL VENTO tries to knock MESSIAH down with the force of the blow! (-Barreling Attack-)
MESSIAH screams as he hits the sand from the force of the blow!
Wild upward slash removes MESSIAH's face from his skull! (+439 Damage)
• Bleeding: 12 health per round
• Possible Disarm

MESSIAH cringes as his weapon drops to the ground after the strike!
MESSIAH is bleeding very badly from several wounds!!!
MESSIAH's life is spared as the Enforcer steps in and commands MAL VENTO to stop!
Some of the other gladiators in the arena begin to sweat!
The fight lasted 29 seconds!

[Dehodem]

Yea that crazy but still won't happen every fight,

It is about teh same for me than a knock out after 2-3 hit like i solstice did 2-3 days ago if i remember correctly.

Last stand is STRONG no doubt about it, but op compare to others end fight skills. i really don't know...

[Dainoji]

IMHO every skill tree has the ability to give the other guy a really bad day. Things like rampage can be parried or absorbed by armor, last stand doesn't guarantee the next hit and even if you do get one it isn't guaranteed to land, you can miss, it can be parried or it can be blocked by armor. The heath boost is negligible on the grand scheme since most glads can do more than that in one hit but it might keep you around a bit longer. Signature move can be a game changer, war gets a host of skills that just always work in the background to make them better all the time and hamstring can change the tide. I can't speak for others, but no one skill is the reason for most of my wins. We're just now starting to see gladiators with the deepest skills in their trees so I think it is still too early to know whether or not there are some balance issues.

[Dehodem]

+1 here

Skills are pretty balance in that game (tierwise) some might benne better but then there weaker ones somewhere else.

Still there combo of skills that are fearsome and destructive.

Not sure that Last stand is one, but for sure, it can change a match around in a heart beat!

[Dainoji]

Case and point:


THUNDER LIPS shuffles quickly to action.
THUNDER LIPS makes a poor attack with his BLOODSIDIAN DIRK.
THUNDER LIPS roars uncontrollably as he attacks! (-Rampage-)
THUNDER LIPS's face scowls as ORMGAR's armour does its job!

Things might have ended differently had that not been blocked.

[Team Kaos]

I think more of the problem is that Rage has skills that stack to create ridiculous damage.
While a War has skills that just prolong the inevitable from a Rage...it doesn't stop it just holds it off until the has a chance to finish it or until the Rage finally lands the hit which produces stupid damage.
A Theatrics, is really stuck with the rope a dope strategy in if a Rage does not miss which they very seldom do with large weapons they are going to get destroyed if they cant put them down fast.

All these Rage skills stack causing stupid damage which has been noticable lately as the Rage guys have started to hit the 7 and 8 and higher skill marks at the higher ends of the skill tree.
Weapon Skill -- increases damage
Brute Force -- reduces opponent defense
Sunder -- lower armor value--resulting in higher damage
Blood Drunk -- increases damage
Rampage -- increases damage (about 80%)
Shock and Awe -- lowers opponent defense
OverWhelming Presence - increases damage
Total Carnage - increases damage

All these skills stack at one point or another

opposed to not a single stacking skill by a War or the single stacking skill of GV which takes about a dozen hits to cause any real damage.

All this on top of the fact that a Rage has immense advantage of gaining the 1st attacks each round unless largely out skilled in agility.

Beauty of an example


KHARN finds an old LONG SPEAR laying on the ground.
KHARN hops hurriedly to action.
KHARN tries to injure his opponent with his LONG SPEAR.
MOON CHILD
KHARN

Number of Attacks
30%
MOON CHILD backs up a few inches as KHARN descends upon him! (-Shock & Awe-)
Stomach is torn open by the mighty blow! (+168 Damage)
• Attack Power: -5 (3 rounds)
• Possible Knock Down

MOON CHILD drops to the ground grabbing his wound!
KHARN dances quickly back and forth.
KHARN makes a vicious underhanded thrust with his LONG SPEAR.

Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44
Number of Attacks
30%

KHARN roars uncontrollably as he attacks! (-Rampage-)
Monstrous lunge into the upper arm creates a clean opening...blood spills to the ground in waterfall like fashion! (+410 Damage)
Total Carnage

and this is with a base level spear found off the ground and being used to bash and then lunges while using a bashing tactic. Notice how Rampage stacked with total carnage on top of shock and awe and also stacks on top of as i mentioned all the other Rage stacking skills producing a hit about 150% bigger then his previous hit. Again with a base level spear not a purple maul.

[Dainoji]

It makes sense that the majority of rage skills do more damage and even stack sometimes since that is pretty much all they are about. They have no defense to speak of and Thunder Lips's 50% win percentage is evidence of that. Theatrics glads can counter attack vs a rage and get a ton of attacks as well (Chuck Norris does this with good results), you'll just have to weather the storm a bit. War gets heavy armor which is a bitch to get through, sunder armor helps but what helps even more is the most recent fad of war glads stripping off their armor. By doing so it has allowed Thunder Lips to go back to daggers and get even more attacks. You might recall Thunder Lips used to go with daggers about a month ago but had to upgrade to broad swords because he couldn't do enough damage against the heavy armor to win fights consistently. Once many at the top started stripping down (even theatrics) to leather you voluntarily placed yourself in rage territory without the natural benefits of being a rager.

For the entire time this game has been around I think rage has had the short end of the stick and the rankings showed that for quite some time. Now as we are entering a new phase of the game with gladiators hitting the higher skills I think war and theatrics managers might have to change things up, the old tricks of the past might not work as well anymore. One thing I'll say for this game is you have to keep up with the times, strategies that work in the 10s-20s range might not work in the 30s-40s range and the 30s-40s tricks might not work in the 40s-50s. Add on top of that the achievement system and a gladiator can easily be tricked out differently each day which in my opinion is awesome. Keeps things fresh and prevents stagnation and gives players options. I thought I had a great winning combo with my new gear and achievement selections but Ormgar proved that wrong. I think what you might be seeing is the more powerful gladiators become the harder it is to make a one size beats all build and that is a good thing in my book.

It would be cool if we could have a separate fight strategy for when we get our challenges as that would make for another level of strategy. Hell, it would be cool if we could have a 2nd gear setup to be used with that strategy, that would open up all kinds of options and lessen the burden somewhat of trying to come up with a strategy that will work well against all types, but then again the restriction on options is what makes things more interesting and manageable.

I say give it some more time and that will tell all, it usually does.

[Team Kaos]

Theatrics glads can counter attack vs a rage and get a ton of attacks as well (Chuck Norris does this with good results), you'll just have to weather the storm a bit.
Yes, they counter but it's not a one for one counter..its survive the raging freaks 2,3 or 8 shots, get basically nearly killed and if you have enough agility and a small weapon you may be able to end the fight before the second rd, before the Rage of course gets the first swings in again. And for that reason there are so few good Theatrics fighters. Most managers give up Theatrics for that reason and play Rage's and War's.


It would be cool if we could have a separate fight strategy for when we get our challenges as that would make for another level of strategy. Hell, it would be cool if we could have a 2nd gear setup to be used with that strategy, that would open up all kinds of options and lessen the burden somewhat of trying to come up with a strategy that will work well against all types,

I could not agree any more..that would be the best upgrade the game has seen thus far by far....

[Dainoji]

Yes, they counter but it's not a one for one counter..its survive the raging freaks 2,3 or 8 shots, get basically nearly killed and if you have enough agility and a small weapon you may be able to end the fight before the second rd, before the Rage of course gets the first swings in again. And for that reason there are so few good Theatrics fighters. Most managers give up Theatrics for that reason and play Rage's and War's.

Well hold on there, the top throne has been occupied by a Theatrics glad for probably more than 80% since the beginning. I knocked one down only to lose it to a Theatrics glad. I hardly consider them to be at a disadvantage. :)

[Team Kaos]

Theatrics are very difficult to run, and take a ton of tweaking to figure out. Most people aren't even sure if a theatrics is offensive or defensive...and no doubt a theatrics has always gotten the short end of the stick despite the success of Solstice and Power Slave.

Just count them up through out the ladders...theatrics are the least run because they are so difficult to figure out and are so over powered and are prone to one or the other of the 2 completely different builds of Rage and War's.

I know it sounds weird hearing it from me with 2 of the top Theatrics for so long..but I watch pretty much all the other ladders as we go.

[Dainoji]

Hey everyone! Look at those underpowered-short-end-of-the-stick Theatrics guys go 1, 2, and 3 in the arena...again! Quick, someone call Nate and ask him to do something to make them even better! ;)

[Apoca1ypse]

and this is with a base level spear found off the ground and being used to bash and then lunges while using a bashing tactic. Notice how Rampage stacked with total carnage on top of shock and awe and also stacks on top of as i mentioned all the other Rage stacking skills producing a hit about 150% bigger then his previous hit. Again with a base level spear not a purple maul.

kharn is just stacked str and chi in that match. if he's going to hit with a weapon, it's going to feel like it was by a truck. it was just a Semi this time instead of a B-Double like when he's using his maul :P i had a look through my fight log and saw this. i dont see a total carnage proc anywhere, which would make sense because it isnt trained


R O U N D 1
>> MOON CHILD SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> KHARN SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
MOON CHILD moves with unbridled energy.
MOON CHILD tries to pound KHARN with his MASTERWORK WAR HAMMER.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
826/919
826/919
1240/1240
1240/1240
55/57
55/57
74/75
74/75

MOON CHILD looks to hamstring KHARN! (-Hamstring-)
Awesome shot to the upper arm squashes nerves and veins on bone shards! (+93 Damage)
• Possible Disarm

KHARN screams in agony as the strike causes him to drop his weapon!
>> MOON CHILD SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
>> KHARN SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 4
R O U N D 2
KHARN finds an old LONG SPEAR laying on the ground.
KHARN hops hurriedly to action.
KHARN tries to injure his opponent with his LONG SPEAR.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
826/919
826/919
1072/1240
1072/1240
52/57
52/57
73/75
73/75
Number of Attacks
30%

MOON CHILD backs up a few inches as KHARN descends upon him! (-Shock & Awe-)
Stomach is torn open by the mighty blow! (+168 Damage)
• Attack Power: -5 (3 rounds)
• Possible Knock Down

MOON CHILD drops to the ground grabbing his wound!
KHARN dances quickly back and forth.
KHARN makes a vicious underhanded thrust with his LONG SPEAR.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
826/919
826/919
662/1240
662/1240
49/57
49/57
72/75
72/75
Number of Attacks
30%
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44

KHARN roars uncontrollably as he attacks! (-Rampage-)
Monstrous lunge into the upper arm creates a clean opening...blood spills to the ground in waterfall like fashion! (+410 Damage)
• Possible Knock Down
• Possible Serious Injury

MOON CHILD attempts to strike from the ground.
MOON CHILD whips around with his off hand.
MOON CHILD winds up before attacking.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
805/919
805/919
662/1240
662/1240
47/57
47/57
71/75
71/75
Number of Attacks
30%
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44

MOON CHILD aims for KHARN's head.
MOON CHILD's attack lands on KHARN's forearm inflicting weak wounds. (+21 Damage)
R O U N D 3
MOON CHILD yells in frustration as he looks for an opening to stand!
KHARN is no longer affected by Hamstring
KHARN leaps hurriedly to and fro.
KHARN brutally stabs at MOON CHILD with his LONG SPEAR.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
805/919
805/919
261/1240
261/1240
44/57
44/57
70/75
70/75
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44

Freakish hit to the back of the arm brings a shrill cry of pain and anguish that echoes throughout the arena! (+401 Damage)
>> KHARN SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 3
MOON CHILD tries to attack from the ground.
MOON CHILD whips his MASTERWORK WAR HAMMER toward KHARN with deadly accuracy.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
676/919
676/919
261/1240
261/1240
43/57
43/57
69/75
69/75
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44

The blow to KHARN's groin lands with mighty force! (+130 Damage)
• Possible Knock Down

KHARN screams as he hits the sand from the force of the blow!
MOON CHILD readies a strike from the ground.
MOON CHILD sneaks in an off handed strike.
MOON CHILD moves at KHARN with an unsteady shield bash.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
654/919
654/919
261/1240
261/1240
41/57
41/57
68/75
68/75
Prone
prone
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44

MOON CHILD goes for KHARN's elbow and connects with his BLOODSAND KITE SHIELD inflicting little wounds. (+22 Damage)
MOON CHILD readies a strike from the ground.
MOON CHILD makes a downward attack.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
568/919
568/919
261/1240
261/1240
40/57
40/57
67/75
67/75
Prone
prone
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-70
Defense
-44

MOON CHILD smiles after the cyclopean hit to KHARN's skull! (+86 Damage)
R O U N D 4
MOON CHILD regains his ground and stands!
KHARN yells in frustration as he looks for an opening to stand!
MOON CHILD is no longer affected by Shock & Awe
KHARN tries to attack from the ground.
KHARN sends his LONG SPEAR toward MOON CHILD with awesome force.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
568/919
568/919
22/1240
22/1240
37/57
37/57
65/75
65/75
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-5

Massive shot to MOON CHILD's hip...The grounds keepers are going to have to work hard to clean up this mess! (+240 Damage)
• Bleeding: 15 health per round
• Attack Power: -5 (2 rounds)

MOON CHILD whirls frantically around KHARN.
MOON CHILD decides to attack with the other hand.
MOON CHILD steps to the side and whips his BLOODSAND KITE SHIELD around with bloodthirsty precision.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
468/919
468/919
22/1240
22/1240
35/57
35/57
64/75
64/75
Prone
prone
Bleeding
15
Attack Power
-10

MOON CHILD smiles after the crippling hit to KHARN's upper leg! (+100 Damage)
• Attack Power: -5 (4 rounds)

MOON CHILD spins his MASTERWORK WAR HAMMER in front of him as he charges forward to attack.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
399/919
399/919
22/1240
22/1240
32/57
32/57
62/75
62/75
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-5
Bleeding
15
Attack Power
-10

The blow to KHARN's gut lands with mammoth force! (+69 Damage)
• Attack Power: -10 (3 rounds)

MOON CHILD looks to an off handed strike to deal damage.
MOON CHILD makes a rookie attack with his BLOODSAND KITE SHIELD.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
378/919
378/919
22/1240
22/1240
30/57
30/57
61/75
61/75
Prone
prone
Attack Power
-15
Bleeding
15
Attack Power
-10

Heavy shot to the knee causes a minor sprain. (+21 Damage)
R O U N D 5
KHARN regains his ground and stands!
KHARN seeks to poke his adversary.
KHARN
MOON CHILD
378/919
378/919
0/1240
0/1240
27/57
27/57
59/75
59/75
Attack Power
-15
Bleeding
15
Attack Power
-5

Shot to the head removes an eye along with part of the brain! (+360 Damage)
• Possible Knock Down
• Possible Serious Injury

MOON CHILD screams as he hits the sand from the force of the blow!
MOON CHILD's head may never be the same!!! *** Serious Injury ***
MOON CHILD begins to plea for his worthless life and after a moment of thought KHARN spits on the pitiful fool and walks away!
The fight lasted 51 seconds!


the other thing to note is that i am working on trying to get skills to 9th level with kharn (everything is minimum 7th). he has 9th level brute force and weapon skill for example, and has been 1 successful train away from weapon mastery for 2 weeks. i'm looking forward to total carnage, but i'm only on 80 trained skills so far.

Dainoji is right in that we're only starting to see the pointy end of what skills can do. rage is all about dealing damage, so of course we're going to see that. i see war glads rocking awesome armor in the upper levels and it's just irritating as hell to see armor negate my attacks even though i have brute force jacked up. hamstring also pisses me off, and i bet theatrics glads hate it even more. speaking of theatrics, i have a hard time hitting those fokkers, and if i cant hit them early, i'm up poop creek. disarm and stun are such a HUGE pain in the ass too. i dont think i've ever beaten chuck after he got me with an early disarm. you just got unlucky that i hit your weak spot for massive damage :P also, my theatrics eats same level wars because of GV. it's great. i cant ever get it up high enough vs a rager, but that's because of my lack of flexibility in his build. showoff can wreak havoc against a rager who's trying his hardest to play tag.

[Apoca1ypse]

Hey everyone! Look at those underpowered-short-end-of-the-stick Theatrics guys go 1, 2, and 3 in the arena...again! Quick, someone call Nate and ask him to do something to make them even better! ;)

lol :P

i think it needs to be noted that you (kaos) threw heaps of trophies into maxing out your skills before everyone else. that gave you a huge advantage before (and your W/L with solstice reflects that) but the rest of us have been playing catchup slowly with a more optimised skill path and we are now the ones reaping the rewards. your armor is (and always has been) monstrous in it's stat buffs (eg 177 total agility on solstice right now) but they can only go so far now that all of us are around the same level and therefore access to the same gear.

i'm sure you'd find more favourable results with your gladiators if you made use of the unlearn function and worked on maxing out a few skills, but you can hardly cry foul legitimately about theatrics underperforming when your skills are not even fully optimised, gear is about equal, yet still sit at/near the top consistently.

edit - i see you have 95/100 skills so you're atleast doing a rework. you'll start to see your skills do a hell of alot more for you once you get them to 8 or 9.

[Team Kaos]

i think it needs to be noted that you (kaos) threw heaps of trophies into maxing out your skills before everyone else. that gave you a huge advantage before (and your W/L with solstice reflects that) but the rest of us have been playing catchup slowly with a more optimised skill path and we are now the ones reaping the rewards.

That's a bit off, the top 3 are just much older then all the other gladiators, so of course they maxed out, and I certainly was not even the first to max out. These guys have been running around since December, there are only a handful that are still active that old.
My reworking of skills is due to throwing a lot of single digit skills here and there....perhaps it was the way to go as since Solstice is just not the same. Is it the change in his skills or the opposing gladiators?

[Apoca1ypse]

i too started in december (though cycled through many glads) and you still were at the top. you were the earliest person i knew to run purples everywhere, along with the meatbags (whom i miss :() i know solstice was maxed fairly early on, as were some of the other stables, but it was predominantly your glads at the top.

the change i think is that more people (atleast when i look now compared to before) are starting to get 9/10 trains on more skills, so that's making things like huge hits get seen more often. also, higher level items compliment that nicely so big hits get bigger and there are more armor deflections etc. i highly doubt nate changed the way anything works other than how total parry got changed to tank, and was advertised by nate.


also, you have 7 points in finishing blow. while it's nice to rip off the head of your opponent, i'd much rather spend my points on something that gives me an edge in combat. i guess that one skill is all i could complain about in the theatrics tree because it is the only skill of any class that gives no advantage in the fight proper. i dont think anyone has pointed at that skill as being an issue, but maybe it is that that has led to your deep belief that theatrics are totally shat on by other classes, but it isnt really that bad as the other classes also have gimp skills (or atleast i came to that conclusion when i tried them)

rage for example has devastating power, which in my experiance was just wasted points as anyone who cared for their glads heals them before a fight (so no going into an fight with an area to get a bonus off immediately) and hitting the same spot was both not regular, nor gave too much extra damage. it also just about always required you to cause an injury because of the afforementioned fact that people heal religiously before fights.

war has master of arms, which is really only useful if you cannot kit your gladiator as you'd like, be it from pit fights or not being able to find the right weapon in your preferred class - blade, axe etc, or get disarmed by an opponent and pick up a grey which was going to be pretty crappy no matter how you cut it....

[Prinny]

Now here's a fine example of Last Stand's initiative Bullshit lol

COLOSSUS's leg may always be in pain!!! *** Serious Injury ***
COLOSSUS is bleeding very badly from several wounds!!!
COLOSSUS lets forth the roar of a lion and prepares to leave it all on the sands! (-Last Stand-)

COLOSSUS tries to attack from the ground.
COLOSSUS lashes out like an untamed creature and attacks.

COLOSSUS's face scowls as LAHARL's armour does its job!
COLOSSUS attempts to strike from the ground.
COLOSSUS charges LAHARL, his HEROIC GREAT AXE moving with thunderous power.
A crippling wound is opened on LAHARL's tricep! (+148 Damage)

LAHARL makes an off handed attack.
LAHARL executes a complex thrusting attack with his BLOODSAND BLADE.


This would be Normal exept for the fact that Colossus is hamstringed for 75% at this point and is wielding a HEROIC GREAT AXE which we all know has a speed of 1...How does Last Stand make a rage pull that off i wonder xD

[Team Kaos]

Not that your example was the best I've seen, but it is along the lines that I am speaking of.

Last Stand is doing a lot more then just a boost health and endurance to a nearly dead Rage.

[Prinny]

Not that your example was the best I've seen, but it is along the lines that I am speaking of.

Last Stand is doing a lot more then just a boost health and endurance to a nearly dead Rage.

I couldn't agree more lol xD

[oedi]

All rage managers out there like to disagree, but in my opinion last stand is the best skill in the game. I got atm 2 theatrics with last stand, and its so much fun to beat the ragers at their own game. Narvalo just took out summit, who got almost 600hp more than my guy.

[Arkham]

Last stand is HUGE for 2h monstrosities. No all managers of rage gladiators use 2 handers. I think this is a fringe case that is very popular right now.

[oedi]

Id like to resurrect this old thread. This was the big issue a litte more than 1 year ago. Mr. Kaos and I on one side and all the rage managers on the other side. Kaos and I agreed in the power of last stand but disagreed on the medicine. I trained my theatrics in last stand and took the entire arena by surprise.
I still think last stand is the most powerful skill in the game, and the only real counter for last stand is last stand. But since then ive learned more, and its quite possible to manage successful gladiators in both theatrics and war specialities without last stand.
I actually belived that last stand would get nerfed, and i started training gladiators for what i expected would be the new environment. Zerotewntyone, and zeroseventeen as examples of pure war gladiators. Nineeightyone and Ravnoal as examples of theatrics with no last stand.
As of today I`m undecided of what i want for last stand, when the new skills are introduced, but whatever happens im prepared.:)

[Prinny]

Ive also already decided on the skills Laharl, Shikii and Yuki Onna are going to get when the new skill build gets released and they will probably run jsut fine using those skills aswell but untill that time comes im letting them keep their last stand skill/ sig move skills ;)

Asatsuo and Yukimaru aren't getting Last Stand though~

[Kreegan]

The skills is overly used which is hardly surprising because it's overpowered. In the vast number of cases a gladiator with Last Stand will beat one without - provided that they're relatively equal otherwise, people are aware of this and the Last Stand fighters in Primus are piling up, making the fights very similar and boring (in the most ridiculous scenarios a two-handed Rage on the ground, with Hamstring in effect on him/her, will strike 3-4 times in a row when Last Stand triggers...). My own gladiators who don't have it owе about half of their losses to that skill alone and I'm not even considering a new build without it. I too expected it to be nerfed a few months ago but this didn't happen and I'm not sure if it will happen at all.

[Apoca1ypse]

IMO last stand is even more potent when not used by rage glads as it's giving a huge boost to gladiators that are inherently more versatile. the initiative reset/tweek when it triggers for a speed theatrics for example eats my rage glads alive, or lets a heavily armored war glad get in some extra bashy and HP.

[sevenseas]

i dont see any glads with last stand having a 80% w/l ratio....every style has its super move...it's just easy and cheesy for rage, but i am almost a totaly rage manager so maybe you're right about the whole rage bias thing. But either way...try as i will and try as i might i cant touch the top 10 glads with or without last stand:confused:

[Cynaidh]

I still hope that in the new skill trees last stand becomes rage only. Its the only defensive ability that rages have if you think about it but it gets countered by everyone having it so rages really got the short end of the stick by it not being a rage only skill. I'd really like to see it moved to being the last skill in the rage tree.

[Prinny]

Basicly for the last skills in the skilltrees, Rage: Last Stand, War: Hamstring, Theatrics: Signature Move

Anyway I don't know, Last Stand is 1 of the few skills that gives wars an even remote chance of winning against monsters like Belgarad xD
But for when it happens, I know what skill build ill go anyway :)

[oedi]

Zerotwentyone proves that it is possible to be successful, atleast in the arena without last stand. Last stand can to a certain extent be countered with speed and a lot of hp. Im not sure what i want for revamped last stand, but right now im in favor of a rage only initiative nerfed last stand version.

[Kreegan]

I have two Wars without Last Stand in Primus - Zonferat and Murmillo - and both of them fare reasonably well (considering that they have only their gold achievement slots "armed") but also both of them have serious difficulties against gladiators with Last Stand, particularly Wars and Rages with armour-piercing weapons. I'm pretty certain that their success rate would have been even higher with Last Stand. It will indeed be better to make the skill Rage-only but also to tone it down a bit so it doesn't win the fight immediately after it triggers in most cases.

[Cynaidh]

Im not sure what i want for revamped last stand, but right now im in favor of a rage only initiative nerfed last stand version.

I agree, I'd rather it be the + health/stamina and then some type of defensive buff rather then initiative and rage only.

[sevenseas]

some rages only get off 2-3 hits per fight, and last stand is almost a must for 2 handers....it's not all that powerful cause sometimes it doesn't do crap if your opponent has the initiative...

[Cynaidh]

Last stand with 2 handed rages especially snivelers when they fight each other is just weird... in those fights normally who ever attacks first looses as the 1 hit will put the other glad into last stand who will then attack twice taking out the glad who attacked first.

Another thing that I think would be interesting is if the three trees had a passive effect like for each point in rage you gain .1% damage (10% for 100 points), warrior tree could be .1% damage mitigation, theatrics tree .2% more money/kill chance. Something along those lines.

[sevenseas]

All these Rage skills stack causing stupid damage which has been noticable lately as the Rage guys have started to hit the 7 and 8 and higher skill marks at the higher ends of the skill tree.
Weapon Skill -- increases damage
Brute Force -- reduces opponent defense
Sunder -- lower armor value--resulting in higher damage
Blood Drunk -- increases damage
Rampage -- increases damage (about 80%)
Shock and Awe -- lowers opponent defense
OverWhelming Presence - increases damage
Total Carnage - increases damage

blood drunk- does not increase damage...it increases attack probability... in the END of the fight
overwhelming presence does not increase damage...it increases attack probability
and as far as i know total carnage doesn't increase damage...it just make a normal hit a critical hit...it makes a critical hit more likely to be a serious injury, and it makes a serious injury more likely to lead to a kill. I have a lot of rage glads in my stables, and i train in all sorts of skills and rage ( with or without last stand) is in no way the dominant specialty, it's all in the way you build. this whole thread sounds like a few people upset cause their glads are weaker than their opponents. ( no offense to anyone ) I don't hear anyone complaining about wars and their stupid create distance for entire fights, IMO the game is balanced fine. Anyways this thread just ended up as a big argument, and i'm sure we all have better things to do..., like find a way around Oedi!

[sevenseas]

>> TUSENOGTO SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> DON FLAMIGO SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
TUSENOGTO whips around with her off hand.
TUSENOGTO looks to cripple her opponent.
TUSENOGTO tries to fake DON FLAMIGO out with a few twirls of her weapon! (-Feint-)
A cyclopean wound is opened on DON FLAMIGO's abdomen! (+81 Damage)

>> TUSENOGTO SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 3
>> DON FLAMIGO SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 4
TUSENOGTO makes a lightning quick jab with her BLOODSTEEL SLASHER.
TUSENOGTO looks to seriously damage DON FLAMIGO's armour! (-Sunder Armour-)
Monstrous lunge into the upper arm creates a clean opening...blood spills to the ground in waterfall like fashion! (+129 Damage)

Resisted Can Not Defend Effect!
DON FLAMIGO has minor cuts and bruises on his body!
R O U N D 2
DON FLAMIGO overtakes TUSENOGTO and attempts to carve into her.
DON FLAMIGO's weapon rips into TUSENOGTO's back inflicting horrific damage! (+797 Damage)

Resisted Must Defend Effect!
TUSENOGTO has some pretty nasty cuts and bruises on her body!!
TUSENOGTO moves with uncontrolled energy around the arena.
TUSENOGTO makes a powerful jab using her BLOODSTEEL SLASHER.
TUSENOGTO is aiming at DON FLAMIGO's midsection.
TUSENOGTO tries to fake DON FLAMIGO out with a few twirls of her weapon! (-Feint-)
Whoosh...DON FLAMIGO is almost cut in two! (+184 Damage)

Resisted Stun Effect!
TUSENOGTO moves furiously trying to gain the advantage.
TUSENOGTO whips around with her off hand.
TUSENOGTO's razor sharp SOUL-FORGED LONG SWORD flashes toward DON FLAMIGO with deadly accuracy.
Slash to DON FLAMIGO's sternum opens a sucking chest wound! (+113 Damage)

DON FLAMIGO is bleeding from various wounds on his body!!
TUSENOGTO attacks DON FLAMIGO and tries to cut him.
TUSENOGTO connects with her BLOODSTEEL SLASHER causing freakish damage! (+148 Damage)
>> DON FLAMIGO SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
TUSENOGTO takes a step back to catch a quick breather.
DON FLAMIGO can't take much more of this beating!!!
DON FLAMIGO lets forth the roar of a lion and prepares to leave it all on the sands! (-Last Stand-)
DON FLAMIGO speeds uncontrollably around TUSENOGTO.
DON FLAMIGO seeks to hurt his adversary with his DARKSTEEL FLAMBERGE.
DON FLAMIGO looks to blind TUSENOGTO with one of his signature moves! (-Signature Move: Blind-)
DON FLAMIGO jabs a finger in TUSENOGTO's eye!
DON FLAMIGO moves with uncontrolled energy around the arena.
DON FLAMIGO uses his DARKSTEEL FLAMBERGE to lash out with deadly force.
DON FLAMIGO looks to seriously damage TUSENOGTO's armour! (-Sunder Armour-)
The blow to TUSENOGTO's back lands with towering force! (+757 Damage)

TUSENOGTO drops her weapon as the pain from the hit streaks through her body!
>> DON FLAMIGO SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 4
TUSENOGTO is pleading with the Enforcer to spare her life!!!
TUSENOGTO lets forth the roar of a lion and prepares to leave it all on the sands! (-Last Stand-)
R O U N D 3
TUSENOGTO's wounds continue to bleed!!!
DON FLAMIGO is becoming noticeably weaker from blood loss!!!
DON FLAMIGO charges furiously around TUSENOGTO.
DON FLAMIGO strikes at TUSENOGTO and looks to slash her.
DON FLAMIGO
TUSENOGTO
230/821
230/821
0/1567
0/1567
71/87
71/87
54/55
54/55
Bleeding
8
Attack Power
-30
Bleeding
17
Blinded
1

DON FLAMIGO looks to seriously damage TUSENOGTO's armour! (-Sunder Armour-)
Bloody slash to TUSENOGTO's side exposes several useful intestines! (+792 Damage)

TUSENOGTO begs and pleads that her life be spared, and in a moment of weakness, DON FLAMIGO allows it!
The crowd stomps their feet and claps their hands as the victor leaves the arena!
The fight lasted 31 seconds!



This happens all of the time too.

[Cynaidh]

overwhelming presence does not increase damage...it increases attack probability

This is something i tested several months ago and I can tell you it does increase damage, my test was taking a two handed rage and changing the gear he had to take his presence from 65 to 133 with him having 10 in Overwhelming Presence. This increased his damage by 200-500 per hit.

[sevenseas]

CURVEBALL bounces hastily about.
CURVEBALL's muscles flex as he lashes out with his menacing DREAMWOOD BATTLE AXE.
Wicked slash slices open RAGNAROEK's chest...heart and lungs pureed, sickening! (+192 Damage)
CURVEBALL springs hastily back and forth.
CURVEBALL decides to attack with the other hand.
CURVEBALL brutally lashes out with his DREAMWOOD BATTLE AXE leaving the crowd in awe.
CURVEBALL connects with his DREAMWOOD BATTLE AXE inflicting massive injuries! (+180 Damage)
RAGNAROEK glances at some of the larger wounds on his body!!
CURVEBALL springs quickly around RAGNAROEK.
CURVEBALL's muscles flex as he ferociously lashes out with his DREAMWOOD BATTLE AXE.
CURVEBALL is aiming at RAGNAROEK's midsection.
CURVEBALL looks to blind RAGNAROEK with one of his signature moves! (-Signature Move: Blind-)
CURVEBALL jabs a finger in RAGNAROEK's eye!
R O U N D 2
RAGNAROEK yells in frustration as he looks for an opening to stand!
RAGNAROEK is no longer affected by Signature Move
RAGNAROEK readies a strike from the ground.
RAGNAROEK brings his EPIC SLEDGE HAMMER crashing down onto CURVEBALL.
CURVEBALL kicks RAGNAROEK in the chest knocking him out of striking range! (-Create Distance-)
CURVEBALL springs hurriedly about.
CURVEBALL makes an off handed attack.
CURVEBALL drives towards RAGNAROEK and seeks to cleave him.
Cruel slash to the foot goes through flesh and bone like a hot knife through butter! (+282 Damage)

RAGNAROEK's leg may always be in pain!!! *** Serious Injury ***
RAGNAROEK takes a step back to catch a quick breather.
RAGNAROEK appears very concerned with his physical state!!!
RAGNAROEK lets forth the roar of a lion and prepares to leave it all on the sands! (-Last Stand-)
RAGNAROEK attempts to strike from the ground.
RAGNAROEK attempts to crush his adversary.
The blow to CURVEBALL's ribs lands with monstrous force! (+273 Damage)

Blood pours from CURVEBALL's battle wounds!!
RAGNAROEK moves around on the ground looking for an opening to strike.
RAGNAROEK swings his EPIC SLEDGE HAMMER toward CURVEBALL with uncanny speed.
The blow to CURVEBALL's chest lands with monstrous force! (+255 Damage)

CURVEBALL gets knocked off balance by the strike and falls to the ground!
CURVEBALL attempts to strike from the ground.
CURVEBALL's DREAMWOOD BATTLE AXE brutally slices toward his opponent.
CURVEBALL's attack lands on RAGNAROEK's groin causing gigantic damage! (+176 Damage)
>> RAGNAROEK SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 2
CURVEBALL attempts to strike from the ground.
CURVEBALL charges RAGNAROEK, his DREAMWOOD BATTLE AXE moving with thunderous power.
CURVEBALL lands a strike on RAGNAROEK's collarbone creating beastly injuries! (+158 Damage)

Resisted Stun Effect!
CURVEBALL readies a strike from the ground.
CURVEBALL tries to maim RAGNAROEK with his DREAMWOOD BATTLE AXE.
CURVEBALL connects with his DREAMWOOD BATTLE AXE causing massive wounds! (+151 Damage)

CURVEBALL pauses for a moment to catch his breath.
RAGNAROEK falls to the ground with tears in his eyes and begs the mighty CURVEBALL to spare his impotent life!
The roar of the arena can be heard for miles!
The fight lasted 15 seconds!


the next fight of mine that had a last stand in it.