Surprise Ending, stil giving me tough love!

[Aphexii]

Hey guys,

Today is was bored and did some gauntlet runs with my parry theatric to tweak his strategy and after reading 20 battlelog's i noticed something strange in regard of "Surprice Ending".
It's not about how to use it in general more in the sence of how this skill or better what this skill is taking in account when triggering.
After some research in the forum the basic conclusion is that it redirects every damage, effect (when not buggy) and even your own injuries (just the extra damage not the injury itself). I agree with that 100% and we all know it triggers diffenrently with each fighting style like parry should trigger it every second round, counter attack is similar to this and offense style is not really consistent but at least 1 time in a fight.
I noticed just yet...after 7 different parry/counter builds that all my parry guys missed a lot with "Surprise Ending" after triggering, at least more often than the counter guys.
I know this skill can stil be parried or deflected from the opponent in the end, but i'm talking about fights where your parry glad is fighting vs an opponent without noteworthy defensive capabilities. He is taking every hit from you like a magnet and is stil able to parry your multiple "Surprise Ending" attacks, only them!

Is it possible that "Surprise Ending" takes your own parry into account after triggering? I mean an opponent attacks you, you would normaly parry it, but "Surprise Ending" triggers and redirects everything and even "your own parry of that attack". The result of this is, you redirected his attack back to him with all juicy effect's and it is missing the opponent, because of your potential parry of that attack, which is also a "part of the opponents attack" (the potential miss it is).
I didn't found any information on that in the forum.
That would explain why for the most part my parry guys miss their "Surprise Ending" and the counter and offensive theatrics hit them.

So the core question of it is: Does your own fighting style hinder the effectiveness of "Surprise Ending"? in regard of actually hitting the opponent after the initial successful trigger.

If i'm missing some and there is a topic with exactly that question and answers to it, please tell me :eek:

[weaw]

Is it possible that "Surprise Ending" takes your own parry into account after triggering? In general, there (in the game and on the forum too) the information about "To Hit Chance" is not presented.
There's only Attack Power measure and some info about it here and there. While, it's obvious, it's a different things and a different questions, "What the Hit Do?" and "How the Chance to do a Hit?"

Yes, Parry is a relatively weak style in the sense of ToHitChance.
And yes, it's possible, in my opinion, the Surprise Ending skill defines only WhatHitDo-component.

Though for me it's not so interesting: Since we almost hasn't instrument to control when and how this skill works, it's just a rare-working blocking skill for me, with funny results -- sometimes...
// Also, counter and pure-offensive Theatrics rely on their Hits. So, these guys needs a little attention on their Chi stat. And Chi is related to the discussed skill...

[Aphexii]

hmm... okay i keep an eye on it and post later, if i find more real evidence for it.

[Aphexii]

I did some "normal" gauntlet run's to be sure that i hit the enemy 100% with every attack and the enemys miss 95%. I'm pretty sure that SE takes the "miss" or "parry" into account befor triggering. 90% of all SE's did miss despite all other attacks from my glad connected. The only exception was redirected "Feint" and "Unseen Strike" which have increased chances to hit, at least im certain "Feint" does it.

It is not a bit deal in the top ranks, as longterm parry theatrics doesn't exist in Bloodgods, only Kevnan but it seems he's quit abandoned. Stil it adds some salt in my skill build, as i wished to use SE as a bonus damage output, if my howl build is working somewhat against the efficient use of SE. Maybe i drop it and learn a passiv skill instead.

If you are using mainly parry stly with your theatric and you aim at Bloodgods, maybe check your SE from time to time and let me know if the same problem applys to you.

[weaw]

Aphex, there's a possibility that Theatric style has a relation to the SE, but what the sort of relation?

While ToHitChance and HitQuality are different things, but it's very likely these things are works together in the PoW:
For every hit the game computes the hit results, using Attack Power of the source and Defense of the target. [Then, or before, the game mechanics adds evade/block checks, but we'll forget it for a time. ]
The resulting object will be described in the fight log as a hit with different grades: from total miss to red "strong" hit.

SE reflects a hit "as is", as it seems. Including even injures reflection.
So, if a Theatric has 95% of enemys miss, it means the 95% chance that this Theatric reflect (using SE) the hit which is already missed!

// Parry-styles adds the Defense in exchange for Attack Power lose. Yes.

The explanation like this looks simpler...

[weaw]

Perhaps, You could try the combo Counter-Parry. With something like "Even numbered round". Starting with Counter. In order to raise SE chance. And not only.
Because, in my opinion, Theatrics Parry too weak to be comfortable...
But it means a general gear revision, for example...

[Aphexii]

I don't use "only" parry style, but in the cases where parry is used most of the time SE starts to be near useless (unpredictable trigger and an increased chance to miss). "Overwhelming Presence" does maybe a better job in reducing damage overall vs SE in that scenario. I know it's a clumsy argument but you get my idea.

SE is stil a damn good and cool skill in the hands of counter style users.

[Kreegan]

Surprise Ending seems to work work like this:
1. The opponent attacks and successfully scores a hit (no fumble);
2. Surprise Ending may trigger for that attack. If it does, move on;
3. The attack is redirected back at the attacker at its full strength + additional damage bonuses that the attacker might have received upon scoring a hit (like injury);
4. The redirected attack may or may not hit, i.e. your gladiator may still fumble;
5. If the redirected attack hits, the original attacker may still parry or his/her armour might deflect the hit. I have not seen successful dodges (Rage, Shadow) against Surprise Ending;
6. If the redirected attack is not stopped in some way, it lands and does what it's supposed to do, taking into account the armour and the damage-reducing defensive bonuses of the hit gladiator (but ignores Adrenaline Rush).

[Smallz]

My current non HOL blood god experiment seems to have really sporadic occurrences of SE, With 187 agility, 155 pressence and 155 chi, I rarely see it trigger, which i find interesting, because his intelligence is not very good. around 90, so between that and other experiments with Se on several other glads, I believe that the "triggering" of Se is based on intelligence like other activated skills, and the effects are calculated based on agil, pres, and chi. but, i am guessing you all already know this. but i feel pretty strongly that is the case just from what I am seeing (ie higher int glads triggering it a lot more often, even out of counter stance.)