shadow form buffed?

[Aphexii]

i did build a hybrid shadow with some draining and offensive skills and yes i call a shadow with spectral touch/entangle/shadow form a hybrid, it worked well so far.

my point is that after reaching lvl 10 "shadow form" my shadow had no single purple armor deflect text not even vs defensive wars over a long time or better said after roughly 100 fights against mainly heavy armored wars. even with claws equipped!

changed my shadow to chilling presence and right after i unlearned lvl 10 shadow form i got again this "sexy" purple deflect text.
its some time ago that i had an offensive shadow and he did get those deflects even with shadow form.

i assume the whole shadow skill tree got "secretly" buffed or im just immensly lucky with my actual shadow. in the past tanky wars would eat my offensive shadow for breakfast.

i know tank wars are somewhat weakend after the last bigger update, so it should be possible to build a offensive shadow who can go for lighter weapons without worrying armor deflect and be able to compete with those speed builds.

i dont see shadows beeing unbeatable even so "more" viable than in the past ( which is summer last year) :)


trying to keep energy draining and pure offensive shadows seperated that why i did two threads.

[weaw]

Sorry me for "not responding".

I've bury my Father.
It's not a problem, I'm "orthodox". For me, it's just an adventure. The Death? What else? :)
But my Father left to me a work with my sons and other grandchildrens (There are 8 of them).
I must to work with them about mathematics, physics and about. Or we'll be killed by ... something stupid. Like Europa. ;)
So, have no much time for PoW today.
---------------

As i can see today it's not a complex to build a Shadow with a Net (for example). The complexity is about Non-Chilling-builds. And a really serious builds are something between. To beat even a Cheating Trixters.
So, not be deceived by our (Sarlesh/Hive/Kreegan and my) experiments.
And yes, Shadows got some sort of "buff" now. But every [successful] build has a first: fighting style. What is it for Shadow? I don't know about it a lot now...

[Kreegan]

Shadow Form got stealth-updated at one point for sure, probably because it was greatly inferior to Chilling Aura (the latter also seems nerfed for some time). Funny how the game generally took a decisive anti-tank and anti-defensive general direction at some point, now it's nearly a waste of time to try to develop a gladiator with a shield - so many things counter it with good effect that shields become practically useless for the top brackets (I'm doing one final experiment before declaring them dead though). At the same time Shadow Form seems to do nothing against Rages and Heavy Scarring in particular, hitting such a Rage is like hitting a War in heavy armour without Shadow Form.

[weaw]

Funny how the game generally took a decisive anti-tank and anti-defensive general direction at some point...
It's not so funny, sure. Perhaps, you in developing of a tank for years, processing some Shadow for years. And -- ho! The game mechanics is changed. "Stealthy".
PoW is a Nate's game. More than the game of stable managers. It's sad, it has a reasons. But it's true.

For me it's just a Nate's mistake. Because i feel it, i feel the truth is more powerful weapon than the "stealth". But it's only my opinion.

[weaw]

And.
We have a silence about not normal Pit Fights again.

I have a "profit" with it. Why? Because sometimes i catch a 2-nd place with Kullervo.
Why not 1-st?
Because only second place of PF give an access to the defense ahievements 40 and 50! Why? (The AP 50 are available via some different ways, like Arena Chellenges)
What a hell! What a fuck? -- sorry me.
It's a hell not for me only. But i need to kill newbies to get an achieviement. Cool! Yeah?
Nauseating!
I do not have a right to do something like that! But i did it and i will do it.

But it's only emotional.

And the truth is about that the Chilling Shadows are good against every others (except Cheating, but questionable) . While the gladiators are naked. It means the Chilling Aura overpowered.
Sad, nothing to give to Shadow with an exchenge "Chilling for 2 skill of Slayer/Trixter". Stupid, but i will try that.
// It almost impossible to lose more than 2 skills in the Shadow tree. These skills, both, are the skills of viability. 55+10+10...

[Aphexii]

Chilling Aura is just usefull without any condition, you dont need to actually make damage to get a benefit. (My shadow almost never gets thru War glads, 80% of all attacks are deflected but stil drains them solely with Chilling Aura)
Stil it should be balanced at that time ( it was a bit stronger some months ago)

Shadow Form is much more complicated, it depends on successful hits on the right type of armor.

Chilling Aura works with naked glads and equiped glads almost the same, thats why it looks overpowered.
Shadow Form should work very good with a fully equiped glad. (No real evidence here, never had a fully orange offensive Shadow) And the main issue with most offensive Shadows right now is the lack of heavy weapons used and/or some like "Dire Wolf" which uses whips but no entangle skill. Or some exotic guys like "Kullervo" with heavy weapons in both arms but poor equipment.

Nets are just very usefull right now. I tryed out a whip in the mainhand and it worked fine even both weapons shared the Entangle trigger >.<
But it should be very possible to replace the net with a whip and get almost the same results in terms of defensivly manipulating the opponent. A fist fighting Rager is much less intimidating as a rager with a net over him!

Whips are the way to go for those crazy inbetween builds and the same is true for offensive Shadow Form users.(in my opinion) Never saw one with whips and Entangle skill fighting in bloodgods.

The best way is to use both fighting styles in almost every fight, i did a howl BG season with only Shadowdance and it didn't work that good :(

Once Kullervo/Sarlesh are full orange they will be much more potent.

I don't see a good mixed shadow build, maybe drop "Shadow Form" for "Weak Spot" or "Cheap Shot" and use heavier weapons. Both skills are pretty good :D

[Kreegan]

Chilling Aura at least demands you make your gladiator agile enough to evade enough hits before the opponent is exhausted, unlike Cheating Bastard which is by far the laziest skill in the game, surpassing even Knockout in that regard.
Shadow Form is actually a very good skill (some deflections still occur but less than before), just not on a par with Chilling Aura at the moment. You have the same problem with Down and Dangerous vs. Armoured Fortress (really Nate, give those Wars a real alternative top-tier skill, nobody uses that D&D thing and for a good reason), Unfair Advantage vs. Cheating Bastard, to some extent even Juggernaut vs. Flurry of Steel - one of the skills is just far better than the other. Furthermore Shadow Form has a rather niche application, it's effect diminishes with the decrease of the protectiveness of the opponent's armour - i.e. vs. other Shadows, Trixters and especially Rages, the skill is not doing all that much. In contrast, Chilling Aura is efficient vs. everything and as it usually happens (and as it should happen) people pick the skill which give them advantage against a wider range of opponents. That's how you build a good Blood Gods-tier gladiator anyway, by making him/her effective against as many opponents as possible.

[weaw]

I don't see a good mixed shadow build, maybe drop "Shadow Form" for "Weak Spot" or "Cheap Shot" and use heavier weapons. Both skills are pretty good :DThese skills do nothing except some troubles for their users sometimes: Triggered too often and thus, can be called instead of a good offensive ability. It's an analogous of "Feint", nothing more.


I tryed out a whip in the mainhand and it worked fine even both weapons shared the Entangle trigger >.<Using both, net and whip we'll get too "chaotic" Entangle. Perhaps, there is a sense to use off-handed whip instead of net. In order to get more offensive behavior.


The best way is to use both fighting styles in almost every fight, i did a howl BG season with only Shadowdance and it didn't work that good :( While we are trying to use both of styles in every fight we need to find good switching system. Since there's no triggers like "All of my offensives in cooldown" i see no way to use both of them correctly.

[Aphexii]

Dont remind me of "Cheating Bastard".... it is somehow unfair to have both health and endurance regen every turn. Maybe a bit less of of both or a straigth health or endurance split. Even dishing out more damage than the trixsters max health isn't enough to bury them :( its not overpowered, just needs a little tweak

Am i the only one who uses D&D in bloodgods? :confused: It is pretty good so far.

The only safe way to switch strageties is entangle, you can go out of defense into offense after the net hits or the other way around. That is the the safest way to switch styles in my expierence, not the best way but overall solid. (works with whips and "opp. on the ground" trigger)
Stil no good switching system for non Entangle shadows.

[Kreegan]

Am i the only one who uses D&D in bloodgods? :confused: It is pretty good so far.Try to get him in top 10. If you succeed without the matching mechanism picking only easy opponents for you (that happens from time to time) and with a real help from that skill - because you can win 10 fights without getting knocked down even once, that just makes the gladiator good, not the skill - then I'd be really surprised.

[Aphexii]

Well :D Rocoto my D&D War claimed his spot in the top 10 this time, without getting to many easy wins and getting totally walled by other wars. Most of the time she is in fact "breakdancing" on the ground, sometimes 2 or 3 times in a single fight.(so D&D is often enough "active" to count as usefull in most fights)
I cant say that D&D is better than "armored fortress", but a viable alternative for offensive Wars. And more important, it provides a wider diversity in BloodGods.

Sadly I couldnt gather much info about howl fights on the ground, because she always "breakdance" only for 1 turn. My hopes are high for the next month to get at least into the top 25.

Maybe it was buffed some time ago and no one noticed it.... maybe its time to brew around with "forgotten" skills like "D&D,War Cry,Juggernaut," or Rocoto was just lucky this time >.<

[Tyrst]

So I've been following this thread for the past month with the intent of providing some insight on my Shadow Form glad Hongi Hika. I started a response post a couple of weeks ago, but since I had just completed reallocating some skill points I want to wait until the end of the BG season and analyze the results before posting. Good thing I held off, because a couple weeks ago I was of the opinion we were unlikely to see any purely offensive shadow forms glads crack the top 10 slots of BG, and right now I would be eating those words. HH finished 7th overall and as the #1 shadow glad, and I assure you that there is likely no one as surprised as me.

Hongi Hika is a purely offensive, full level 55 orange gear (accept for off hand weapon, it's level 54 because I haven't found a level 55 I like yet), exotic weapon, shadow form glad. I can also confirm resoundingly that yes, shadow form definitely been stealth upgraded recently. HH is my first BG glad and while he's performed well (I currently consider his final ranking a statistical outlier), I had always kind of seen him as the red headed stepchild of my stable since he didn't confirm to the more common and highly successful spec touch/entangle/chill aura Shadow glad build. I had even considered retiring him before this season because I felt he had pretty much reached his ceiling. But before any newbies rush off to build a Shadow Form glad here are some thoughts to consider:

-I never see any sexy purple armor deflect text, even historically

-Shadow Form is frustratingly complicated, as aphexii and kreegan have both noted the main issue with shadow form is it's effectiveness is completely dependent upon an opponents armor, something that in BG you have no control over

-though recently improved, it's a flawed build strategy, as individual players our primary goal is to control as many variables as possible to ultimately effect the outcome of our matchups, and to essentially give away that control to a "niche" top skill isn't a solid build strategy

While I have seen a notable increase in average hit damage across the board regardless of class the truth is that the shadow form is absolutely a "niche" build. I do believe that HH has now hit his ceiling, and for that very reason. I will continue to experiment with him, but from an overall perspective the spectral touch/entangle/chilling aura build is a much more effective build strategy because of it's universal effectiveness.

[Aphexii]

Im excited to see how Hongi Hika will perform this season, hopefully again reaching top 10. I dont think he reached his full potential, sometimes a simple weapon change is enough for incredible results. I mean your offhand kris, its to weak in my opinion and you are already fast as a snivler, maybe with the "blazing speed" skill. It is sad to see your "Dual Strike" being wasted/crippled by a offhanded strike with a kris.(offhand handicap and minimum damage output weapon) There is always a place for niche builds if the meta is to stale. Sadly we are limited to only 5 glads at a time...so its my guilty pleasure to follow Hongi Hika's fights.

[Tyrst]

So I spent about the first couple of weeks of this season experimenting with different stat and weapon configurations on HH. I picked up both a claw and a saber to experiment with and while both were higher damage being level 55 the results for the claw were mehhh, but the saber was downright disastrous. I mostly ran it during week two and I think I only won 3 fights that whole week. In the past I mostly ran HH with a saber and trident, pretty much all the way through the Primus bracket, but I wasn't able to get him over that last little hurdle and make it to BG bracket until I swapped to the off hand Kris. I believe this was because of the initiative penalty for the saber being a larger, slower weapon because once I switched to a Kris I went from averaging 1-3 hits per round, to averaging 3-5 hits per round. These results almost exactly mimicked the results when I switched to the saber this time around. With the saber I averaged 1-2 hits per round (maybe 3 if I was lucky), this lower hit rate directly correlated to lower opportunities to trigger dual strike. I think it was triggering at an average of maybe once per fight, if even that much, (it'll call it .7 or .8 trigger rate per fight) and even when it did trigger the damage output was negligible compared to the damage output of the Kris.

I'm now back to the lvl 54 Kris and back on track. As of posting this HH is sitting at #6 overall, but I know I left at least 6+ wins in the arena while putzing around with the saber and claw. Currently I think HH is averaging about 1.5+ dual strikes per fight. I know of at least one fight this week where dual strike triggered 3 times. So for next season I'll think I'll leave off the experimenting and just see how he handles things. Who knows, he could just prove me wrong about shadow form.