Strategies at 1st round.

[weaw]

Hi, Nate.

Let's take a closer look:


R O U N D 1
>> BAKRUUL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> VRAAK SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1

VRAAK overruns BAKRUUL and looks to maul his enemy.
BAKRUUL's armour protects him!

BAKRUUL hurtles furiously around the arena.
BAKRUUL uses his MASTERWORK GIANT SMASHER to lash out with deadly force.
The strength and precision in BAKRUUL's attack leaves little chance for defense! (-Crippling Might-)
A serious injury is hit and magnifies the damage!
Internal organs are mashed by the beastly shot! (+981 Damage)

VRAAK hits the ground hard after that last hit!
VRAAK looks at his body and notices he has taken a few hits!

BAKRUUL lashes out like an untamed creature and attacks.
BAKRUUL falls into a daemonic trance! (-Adrenaline Rush-)
A serious injury is hit and magnifies the damage!
A mammoth wound is opened on VRAAK's waist! (+902 Damage)

VRAAK's body is going to need a lot of work!!! *** Serious Injury ***
VRAAK appears very concerned with his physical state!!!


R O U N D 2

VRAAK picks himself up off the ground!

>> VRAAK SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 5

...


">> VRAAK SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 5" is "Opponent is Rage" trigger, You know.
Why it doesn't work at 1st Round ?
Opponent is Not Rage at 1st round? Or Vraak is blind for some reasons?

Losing the trigger at the first round can be fatal ... You know it too. Please, fix it.

// If You need a tons of logs with that problem i'll give it to You.

[Dokter]

Hi, Nate.

Let's take a closer look:



">> VRAAK SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 5" is "Opponent is Rage" trigger, You know.
Why it doesn't work at 1st Round ?
Opponent is Not Rage at 1st round? Or Vraak is blind for some reasons?

Losing the trigger at the first round can be fatal ... You know it too. Please, fix it.

// If You need a tons of logs with that problem i'll give it to You.

I'm not super experienced, but just my 2 cents on it; I believe that each level of strategy is a 'priority' which means there is a time check for each level, so having 'Opponent is Rage' at level 5 means that quite a bit of time will pass before it checks for whats in strategy 5, as basically strategies 1-4 have a higher priority.

[weaw]

I believe that each level of strategy is a 'priority' ... It's true. But the priority of switching order only...

... a bit of time will pass before it checks for whats in strategy 5 It's false. There is no space to do these "time passes".
Entire construction of triggers processed simultaneously.

// I'm not super experienced too. But i have an eyes and some brain in my head. I hope, i have it...

[Apoca1ypse]

Priority goes by what order the trigger is done.

Start of fight has highest priority, followed by Strategy 2 etc. Strategy 5 has the lowest priority and will only be used if the criteria for any other strategy is not being met.

[Ogornomus]

I know trigger priority, but "Strategy 1" is the "start of fight / standby" strategy wich is the lowest in priority and it is the default fighting style when no other trigger activates.
But if "Strategy 5" is "Opponent is rage" it should switch to it immediatly if it is true (In case of Bakruul it is). Also no higher priority (Strategy 2-4) was triggered.
It should have been like this:

>> BAKRUUL SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> VRAAK SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> VRAAK SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 5

Instead of waiting one round.

Edit#1: If you set a Opponent is Rage,War, etc. trigger to Priority 5 it should always override "start of fight / standby" as it is always true if you face the specified opponent. So basicly it becomes your "start of fight / standby" for that type of opponent.

Edit#2: I did a few tests in the gauntlet with my speed theathric and he always switches to it after the first attack and before his second one. I don't know if it is intended or not, but it explains Vraak's behaviour.
He only attacked once in the first turn (the blow that got deflected). Then he got grounded and probably lost the rest of his attacks. Then at the start of the second turn before his second attack he switches strategy.

[weaw]

What is a "prority" of the triggers? We have no of these options at all: there is no ways to set two of the triggers with an equal priority.
We have only order of the triggers.

And, yes, the start trigger is the last trigger. It's just designed as a first. For some reasons.

@Ogornomus, Thank you for helping me to describe the problem.

It's the problem because some Ahhnolds are able to serve and eat whole my stable with one round. :)

[weaw]

Edit#2: I did a few tests in the gauntlet with my speed theathric and he always switches to it after the first attack and before his second one. Try to use counter-attack. You'll be surprised how long you can wait for a trigger. %)

For a Shadow the problem style is Shadowdance.
For some Rages this style is simple Berserk (We need to have Hard to Hit for that Rage) .
It seems , sometimes, this problem rises even on Parry for Wars (This style is used rarely, so, i can't say this is correct...).

[oedi]

if your are concerned about rages kicking your ass before you can change strats you need to deal with that problem in strat line 1, your start strategy. You will never just instantly change strategy, but it is quite possible to change strats in round 1 before you have done anything.
I suggest that you do like this to solve your problem: (start/standby 6 tank 1)
That will deal with the early onslaught from any rage, and then you can plan for how to beat your opponent with the other strategy lines.

[weaw]

Thanks, oedi, for some thoughts.

I'm not concerned about a Rages behavior. I'm not concerned even about a rating of my stable.
I'm concerned that the true things are false in the process of a fight. It's a basic things of the logic: Every event must be true or must be false for every bit of time. And it can't have some value between these states...

My report is the report about this problem. It's not a complain of a Rages or something like that. Rages are Ok. Tanks are Ok (in some sense). Shadows are Ok. But the system of a triggers "Opponent is _speciality_" works wrong right now.

[Nate]

Hi Weaw,

Thanks for the question. Gladiators are not able to switch strategies anytime they want, they need to have the opportunity and opening. Sometimes there are affects that prevent them from switching such as being stunned for example or recovering from massive damage or a barrage of attacks. A gladiator also isn't going to know the specialty of his opponent until after the fight begins and he is able to see him fight for a little bit. A war gladiator could be dressed in light armour, wielding a two-handed weapon and looking rather wild for example. Knowing an opponent is rage right at the start is meta game knowledge that you the player knows, not your gladiator. A gladiator's intelligence can help with things like that though and possibly help them make the change sooner than later.

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[weaw]

Oh, Nate.

Thanks for the answer.
I see, there is some barier to understand, what i mean. I'm sorry for that.
But, please, try to understand my words. I have no toughts like "Let's prove to Nate that i'm right and Nate is wrong!" For what?

The words You wrote is some words which You may add to a strategies help.
But my words about game mechanics...

For example, You wrote
Knowing an opponent is rage right at the start is meta game knowledge that you the player knows, not your gladiator. I have a question: What is the moment, when this meta game knowledge become available for gladiator? In my opinion, it's meta game knowledge for a whole fight! In my opinion, a gladiator have no tools to get an access to see a skills of an opponent!
But the game allows it (in this soft form). Because it is the Nate's will. It's not a gladiator property, like Int. It's just Your own will, allow this or not allow.
So, if the game allows it after first hit, why it doesn't allows it before first hit?

It's not a question just for question. I see some sort of weak spot in the game. This is the spot around strategies and styles. Some styles needs a strategies. Some styles don't needs a strategies.
So, some styles depends from strtategies restrictions. It's Ok. But these styles is not at the top of the builds rating!
So, why we need these restrictions?

// It was the main part. I have also an experimental mismatch for
Gladiators are not able to switch strategies anytime they want, they need to have the opportunity and opening. But it is not important.

[Kuljem]

I see this wont be fixed. Too bad. Considering nobody needs time and opportunity to act accordingly in real life.
And I don't think it's metagaming when you fight against same gladiators all the time.
By the way, we are not only players..... we are Masters. Of those gladiators. Of course I tell my gladiator who he will be facing. Especially if I can afford challenge. I don't want my gladiator to lose on purpose. I would give as much advises as possible. Because, why would I spend so much time and patience on his training and fighting styles so he can lose every fight?

Fighting that one gladiator for 10th time in last 5 days and still don't know he is rage. OH DAYUM! Takes 15 seconds of me getting ass kicked to remember he is rage berserking all around the arena with that hammer and it's time to change my approach towards him. But, it's too late, he already killed me. For 4th time in such short period.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much illogic things over here..... but oh well. Nuff said.

[weaw]

I think this part of the game will be fixed. Sooner or later.
// Or this part of the game will just die. Because it's impossible, keep irrational algorithms. Every algorithm must be rational or will die. And a strategy is an algorithm of a gladiator behavior.

But (sorry, i have an objections almost every time :) we need to understand: The game is an abstraction.
While almost every human have an ability to know who is an opponent at 10 sec (It's the minimal in-game round time i've seen), "humanoids" of the Great Realm may have other reaction time.
And it's not literary idea, it's just exactly true. Because this world has own physics.

But this world must have at least his own logic by itself: If a gladiator have an eyes, he should see.
And now we have only blinded and deafen gladiators, which (though) are able to do strange things. Like count up to 1 health yourself and your opponent. Or predict opponents attacks numbers at rate of 100%.
// It's impossible things for any creature, of course.

And it seems exactly this problem must be solved: ability of gladiators to know meta game things instead of the things which is "obvious", like opponents weapon type.
And an ability to know opponents specialty must be removed (it's meta game knowledge forever, no doubts). But now, while it exists and we have no other triggers to describe an opponent, it could be fixed. Yes.

// Sorry for these abstractions.

[weaw]

Hi Nate.


R O U N D 1
>> HPLSSRMNTC SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> LEMMIN KAINEN SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
LEMMIN KAINEN nearly tangles himself up as he whips his SOUL-TANNED NET around.
LEMMIN KAINEN casts his SOUL-TANNED NET at HPLSSRMNTC! (-Entangle-)
>> LEMMIN KAINEN SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 5
>> HPLSSRMNTC SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 3
HPLSSRMNTC is attempting to untangle himself.
HPLSSRMNTC attempts to cleave his opponent with his BLOODSAND ZWEIHANDER.
Freakish slash to the back of LEMMIN KAINEN's leg almost removes it about mid thigh...blood sprays from the wound like a fire hose! (+323 Damage)

>> HPLSSRMNTC SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> LEMMIN KAINEN SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 3
...
Lemmin Kainen strategy contains row 5 "Opponent is Rage" and row 3 "Opponent is Entangled". So, row 5 not actual after first hit of this fight.

// Again: Wrong switching could be fatal. Especially at the start. Especially vs Rages. Not to mention the fact that gladiator loses initiative and even attacks directly while switching.

Please, check and fix it.

// The issue related directly to the time of the first switching.

// By the way, "Opponent is Disarmed" still doesn't work. Though it could be used at least by any heavy-armed Theatrics (Including "Defensive") to build behavior via Counter-Attack. Sadly.