Hard.

[Kuljem]

I don't know where to post this.

Why is this game so hard?
I have no idea how to play this game. At all. Not even a tiny bit.
How the strategies work, how gear and weapons work, how all of the ingame things work??

I get Surprise Ending activate sometimes 2-3 times in a single match, and sometimes it doesn't go off for days...
Just a while back, I changed from low level weapon(about 240dps) to high epic one(about 440dps) and not a single digit raised in actual damage. Everything is the same..
Those strategies, I'll probably never understand.

I am just so sad that I try at this, and I spent a lot of time(you know, just to check in daily, etc) and I have nothing to show for it.
I know all about that self pity nonsense, but can someone please give me some tips on how to actually do good? (dont worry, I read all possible guides)

Thanks.

[Apoca1ypse]

Hi Kuljem. We need more information to be able to help.

What are you finding hard? are you gladiators just not doing well at all in the arena? if so, what sort of gladiators do you have, and what are their skills/strategies.

Have you been upgrading your weapons as you level up, and making sure to keep them repaired?

[weaw]

Hi Kuljem.

At first, i suggest to look at Overall Rating of the Blood Gods bracket.
You will see a Top 10 for each speciality.

Top 5 Rage: Everyone, except Mr Champloo (he uses dual weapons build and Hard to Hit skill), is a two-handed power-rage, having an extremely offensive skills. Everyone has a 57%+ rate.
Top 5 War: First four are tanks having an ultimate defensive skills. Everyone has a 55%+ rate.
Top 5 Theatrics: There are a bunch of speed-like offensive theatrics with a 51%+ rate. And amazing Arkal, which uses pure counter-attacking build at 65%+ rate wielding Axes (strength-oriented weapon).

Also, You may try to launch Gauntlet/Conquest by choosing these top fighters. And then You will see which stats they stacks. Generally, it's Stamina and Strength.

Summary: At this time, metagame is moved close to a Strength+Stamina builds. It's relatively easy for Rage/War, but more difficult for a Theatrics. Because a gladiator must to have not only stacked stats, but the skills oriented by these stats too.

And then about Your a ... questions:
-- The Surprise Ending skill. It's a defensive skill, which means You'll get it more often using a defensive stances, parry or counter-attack. Parry is a difficult style for Theatrics now because of a relatively low role of defense stat for a theatrics. Counter-attack is difficult to build for some reasons too. Also, this skill requires high Agility/Presence/Chi, while the "best" stats are Stamina and Strength at this time.
But it's still looks like "must have skill" now. To deflect Rages power-hits, Dead From Above, or some Slayers/Shadows skills in the future.
-- Weapon quality. I have tried to use grey weapons in the Blood Gods. It works almost as a violet or orange, yes. But a high quality weapon has a higher stats on it, allowing to stack what You need better. By the way, almost the only reason to have second weapon (except a shield/whip/net) is the stats stacking.
-- And we need more information about Your troubles, as Apo says. ;)

[Kuljem]

Dunder Theatric.

Attributes:
Str - 78, Int - 99, Agi - 117, Sta - 108, Size - 91, Pres - 128, Chi - 104
Also invested in some AP and Def

Strategies:
#1 Stand by - 9 - Parry/Lunge - 9
#2 I'm very tired - 3 - Parry/Lunge - 3
#3 I'm mod tired - 8 - Lunge - 9
#4 I'm slig injure - 9 - Lunge - 9
#5 DISABLED

Skills:
Exotic - 10, Shield - 10, Feint - 9, Crowd P - 9, Gratuitous V - 9, Armor M - 10, Sotc - 9, Surprise E - 10
Gear:
All lvl 50(shield, torso, exotic pink, rest blue)

Explain me why does SE activates sometimes 5 times per round, and sometimes it doesnt go off for days using same strategy? I have seen it going off at strategies #1 and #3(or #4, cant remember and lazy to go investigate) most of the times.
This glad does win fights, I don't know about 50% of time. I'm not calculating. But still, it's those little things that bug me.
Same like Feint going off and doing lower damage(with white color), and next time he attacks(without feint and still using main hand) he does about 100 damage(orange-red). I thought that Feint increases AP for that hit, so logically it should hit harder. I don't know.
There is so much I don't understand in this game.
Nate. Make a map, damn it. :D


Oh and btw,
my other glad is using his own strategies, and gear(war blades), and while he had Pink weapon of lower lvl(about 240 dps) he did same damage as he does now that I bought him new pink(lvl 50- about 440dps). I don't know if I am stupid, but I think he damage should increase by almost double. Wanna know how much his damage increased actually in fights? None. Zero. Niente. Nada. Nul.
I'm just amazed at the actual game mechanics. Well done.(no sarcasm)

[Adoede]

Regarding attack power, it doesn't necessarily effect damage. It effects chance to hit, rate of critical hits, and rate of fumbles. It is compared against defense of your opponent to determine your glads effectiveness in attacking in that fight. Higher attack power can sometimes lead to more damage indirectly because of more critical hits and more hits in general.

As for the pink/purple weapons doing the same damage - it also depends on the weapon type. 240 dps means 240 damage per second. But if you use a heavy damage weapon, it might get that 240 in one hit. Using a dagger might get 240 damage in 4 hits. So a higher level speed weapon with a higher dps can still do the same damage per hit as a lower level heavy weapon per hit. But the higher level weapon should do more damage in the same amount of time.

As for the strategies - to see more counter-attacks, reduce bloodlust to gain more "control". Counterattack is a skill that benefits from your glad being more in control than out of control.

Adoede

[weaw]

Explain me why does SE activates sometimes 5 times per round, and sometimes it doesnt go off for days using same strategy? I have seen it going off at strategies #1 and #3(or #4, cant remember and lazy to go investigate) most of the times. Are You using "Blow-By-Blow Detail" button? Sometimes Surprise Ending works, but missed. That blow will only visible in the full log.



Same like Feint going off and doing lower damage(with white color), and next time he attacks(without feint and still using main hand) he does about 100 damage(orange-red). The Feint skill gives a high chance to hit, but not to do a high damage.


About Your strategies.
I think, the parry stance is only good vs Theatrics for this one. A War have enough AP/skills to lang his hits. A Rage even may have a benefits from his opponents parry (like Annihilate skill).
It seems, this gladiator will switch to the strategy #4 after few hits and never use defensive stances (related to Surprise Ending) again until "very tired" (if he will live ...). It's not so good, because a dunder theatrics with a shield looks like something defensive. Yes, counter-attacking, to be more exactly. As Adoede says.

[Kuljem]

Alright, I'll try to implement more counterattacking.
And yes, I read that blow-by-blow.

Would you advice on investing in ap and defense like I am currently doing? (not much tho)

Also Adoede, that weapon is same. Exactly the same. EVERYTHING IS SAME. EVERYTHING. Only a bit more attributes.. Now new weapon should have higher damage, yet it doesn't have.

[weaw]

Boost an offensive powers if You prefer counterattacking style. But not the Attack Power stat exactly. Devastating Power, Brute Force can be useful.
The Defense stat (including Crowd Pleaser skill) can be replaced by Grim Determination.
Unfortunately, these skills relate to Strength/Stamina/Size, but not to Agility/Presence.
But this gladiator has a good Size and already uses Strength/Size/Stamina-oriented skills. Like Shiled, SoTC, Armour Movement.
So, You may try to rise these stats a bit.
If You will use Grim Determination at 10 then the Shiled skill can be relplaced by the Master of Arms, which is more useful. Or You could decide to abandon the Shield at that time...

On the other hand, You may try to learn Bloody Spectacle or even Entangle. But these ways is much worse, in my opinion.

Also, try to use heaviest weapon for counterattacking. It's Falchion for exotics. And it's just funny. :) But a Trident is very useful too and, perhaps, more flexible.

[Dainoji]

A lot of variables go into damage, not just what it says on the tin. Your glad's AL, BL and fighting style are big ones. Your opponent's armor is another big one. Also keep in mind only half of the variables in a fight will ever be the same unless you fight the same glad and nothing has changed. All things being equal you'll see vastly different damage outputs vs a berserking rage glad and tanking war glad. Sometimes it is useful to copy a successful build and then figure out why it is a successful build rather than trailblazing your own way first. Once you understand what makes a build competitive you can start making adjustments and create a new offshoot. Scout some of the top glads and see how they have the skills and what type of weapon and armor they are using. Send them a message as well and see if they'll give you any advice on your strategy. You just might get lucky!

EDIT: one more thing. Defensive shield using Theatrics are a tough build to run. Keep that in mind.

[Kreegan]

I'd advise you to experiment with the weapons and apply a moderate dose of common sense to achieve a decent performance. Many weapons do behave somewhat realistically, i.e. the short Dagger allows very swift attacks but sucks terribly against heavy armour even with tons of offensive skills while the long Bastard Sword is much slower but hits noticeably harder even well-armoured opponents and suffers much less armour deflections. With both weapons however you can't expect incredibly high damage output against heavily defensive opponents (especially tanking Wars) - except if you're running some Elaar or manage to prolong the battle to the point when the opponent gets tired and his/her Defense and armour-boosting skills drop considerably. Why? Because the Blades in general are not armour-piercing weapons. They offer good variety of types to play with your fighter's speed and initiative and can trigger bleeding but if you want to punch through armour, you go for Axes & Maces or 2H weapons - which have their own set of disadvantages though. Frankly you'll probably have to go through an extensive trial-and-error process to figure out what each weapons does and where it fits. Keep in mind that some weapons - even if they are from the same type, i.e. Blades, A&M, etc. - are quite bad for certain builds and perfect for others, don't expect your gladiators to be equally good with everything which the game offers.

As for the displayed damage values - I'd suggest to use them only for a very rough reference. There are really MANY factors that influence damage so what you see is certainly not what you get most of the time. This applies the most to the off-handed weapons - their punch is always considerably weaker than what the raw damage values suggest but the type of the weapon also seems to factor into the actual hitting power. For example one of my Wars - Toros - dual-wields Bastard Swords. The off-handed sword allegedly deals some 400-800 damage without the extra damage bonuses. In fact I've never seen it deal more than 150 even against light armour, usually it's even below 100 as opposed to the regular 400-500 damage hits of the main hand sword which displays the same "basic" damage range. Arkal on the other hand dual-wields axes which should hit for something like 450-750 damage each while in fact the main hand axe scores around 500-600 average damage vs. light armour and the off-handed one - 200-300, i.e. around half of the main hand value. It could be that the longer the weapon is, the harder it is to use with the left hand. Go figure.

Bottom line is, try things. You can read the numerous guides around here for general advises - which are good to prepare you for the average opponent on the arena - but to be able to fight decently at the top, you have to experiment yourself. You can always copy some existing top build of course but that's not where the fun of this game is.

[Kuljem]

Also, how does one fight against gladiator with Entangle?
They can spam that skill all day every day, and it's impossible to break free. And even if I do break free, I get entangled that very same millisecond again.
Tips plz? I have problem with that with all my glads.

[Lunarion199]

well, entangle is my favorite skill :) so even if I'm not a pro I'd like to chip in with my two cents.

- Train in Unnatural Agility if you can. It helps against all sorts of entangles (ensnare, disarm, knockdown)

- Experiment with I am Entangled fight strategy

- Stack luck if you can; it's a hidden skill that indirectly does play a part in this game. See http://forum.pitofwar.com/showthread.php?399-Tip-of-the-Week! (tip#9)

- Stacking intellect may trigger a skill more often. (tip#13). Choosing the right fighting style also helps (tip#8). That's how your opponent might have entangled you often.

- Try reducing the glad's encumbrance.

There are surprises in the game. I've had similar experience as yours, viz fighting with grey weapon has yielded me damage in red similar to fighting with a purple one, and yielded me victories! I feel that's because there may be a cap on the damage dealt (or some formula giving diminishing returns) based on normal weapon hit and if attack power is sufficiently high the quality of weapon may make not much difference. I may be wrong in this theory. Bugs may still be there; they will keep popping up, getting identified and fixed. But many times they're not bugs; just our lack of expertise.

Sorry I've been away from the game for ages; but hope the above info helps a bit. Expert's comments are more advised.

cheers

[Kuljem]

Alright, thanks.

Anyone knows why Trug bonus isn't actually applied?
I mean on resisting bleeding... I know it doesn't completely stops bleeding, but that Blood Bath does almost 300 bleed.....to any kind of glad. I see same damage done to urk, dunder and trug. Which kinda makes no sense.

[Dainoji]

Alright, thanks.

Anyone knows why Trug bonus isn't actually applied?
I mean on resisting bleeding... I know it doesn't completely stops bleeding, but that Blood Bath does almost 300 bleed.....to any kind of glad. I see same damage done to urk, dunder and trug. Which kinda makes no sense.

I'm pretty sure Trugs do get their bleed resistance, if they didn't you would probably see even higher damage. I don't know exactly what their resistance is, but it's probably around 10% or 15% so it isn't huge, but it does help in the long run.

[Kuljem]

I still think Trug don't have any bleeding resistance,thus making them good only for stacking hp. Which brings me to another topic.
GW skill clearly states that bleeding damage takes effect at the end of every round, how come I lost a fight against a gladiator which had 0 hp at the start of last (6th) round.
At the end of 5th round enemy had 7 hp and 13 bleeding damage, while my glad had 51 hp and 12 bleeding damage.
There is 0 logic in this matter.

[Dainoji]

I've beat up on my fair share of Trugs and they are bleeding a lot less than the other races. The zero health issue has been answered many time before in the forums if you search. If I recall the answer is they had between 0 and 1 health but the game only displays whole numbers. It is a little confusing at first but once you understand what is happening it's no biggie.

[Kreegan]

"Surrender rolls" are currently taking place before the damage calculation at the beginning of the round - hence why a gladiator with 0 or less health can win if he/she rolls something that counts as "don't surrender" and the opponent fails at the same. I think Nate was supposed to place the damage calculation first but probably haven't had the time so far.

[Kuljem]

Dainoji, i think you didn't really understood what I wrote back there.
Anyway, I think it's lame and deceiving to announce that bleeding damage is done at the end of the round, while in reality it takes effect the second before first strike in next round.
Oh and that "surrender roll" also without logic..

[weaw]

Anyway, I think it's lame and deceiving to announce that bleeding damage is done at the end of the round, while in reality it takes effect the second before first strike in next round.
Oh and that "surrender roll" also without logic.. I think, there is no difference when exactly bleeding applied except a difference related to "Surrender rolls" described by Kreegan.
Because in fact a round is a series of some events between two of the surrender rolls points. At this point of view, does not matter when a bleeder wins, at the end of the round or at the start of the next.
But i agree, a bleeding damage must be applied at least before the starting surrender roll of the next round, if it is not...

It is what we should suggest to Nate.

[Kuljem]

Question;
Can someone explain me, since I don't understand; How come I sometimes come across matches where I deal only white or gray damage. Meaning, only 1-20 or something like that, without any effect. Situation is mostly next; My Heavy Armor Two Handed Trug vs Light Armor Rage or Theatric. I have a lot(not a LOT, but good amount) of Attack Power and I still hit with DFA for 1 damage, etc. All the while those same enemies in light armor do red and pretty big hits.
Why is that?
Also, my tank with shield and lot of Defense can't hit lightly armored Rage or theatric, but they are KICKING MY ASS all over arena.
Someone smart, please answer me what am I doing wrong. Or is this another one of those unexplainable unlogic things that we see in game.

[Dainoji]

It's best if you can post some examples so we can see them for ourselves and know who the two glads in question are.

Some glads stack a lot of defense, that will reduce your damage. Defensive fighting styles also will reduce damage. Certain weapon types do less damage vs certain armor types. Slashes vs Chain or plate for example deal less damage. Glads who are tanking absorb a lot of damage and reduce hits a lot. Many a rampage will go off at the start of the fight and be a 1 damage hit. I suspect there is something like a "tank health meter" because the more a tank gets punished their ability to absorb damage goes down. If a glads AL is too high that will reduce damage (although you probably make it up with increased attacks). If your BL is low you'll deal less damage. A low attack "roll" or whatever the fight engine does for its RNG can result in a low damage hit.

What glads are you having issues with? Without additional info it's hard to give more specific help.

[Kuljem]

This is out of topic, but I don't want to make new threads for every question i might have, so I'll ask here.
Shouldn't rewards increase as difficulty increases?
Like winning battle royal in primus got me 11 trophies while in maximus it got me 27. That's almost 2.5 times higher reward for being in a easier "surrounding".

And just some comment on prizes from arena challenges, Nate, you really cut in more then few halfs from rewards. xD
I remember getting about 20(maybe more or less, cant remember exactly) throphies for winning, while now I get about 7. Average. :D