Initial thoughts...

[Cynaidh]

Ok this looks like a fun class, seems to have a bit of everything offense and defense with some nice unique stuff.

First looks like a great class for a high Agil/Int/Chi slave the skills break down for stat usage as (not counting weapon skills):

Str 2
Int 8
Agil 10
Stam 3
Size 1
Pres 3
Chi 10

So ya loks like Agil/Chi/Int is the way to go, i'd personally focus on agil and int the most when picking a slave as chi seem very easy to raise on gear.

The first slave i ran into that fits this somewhat was 69-93-98-82-66-71-69, it has the high Agil and Int, i do wish chi was higher but what can ya do :) Also i am not so worried about size on this toon as there is only 1 skill using it and they only wear light armor.

As for skills..... i want them all! Seriously i dont see a skill on here that looks not useful

As for the skills i'll go with on this first guy I think i am going to go:

10 Exotic (why not! makes him more different then my speed rages)
10 Keen Eye (auto aim at injuries, yes pls!)
10 Sixth Sense (lower opponents defense)
10 Weapon Finesse (increase your attack and defense)
10 Armour Movement (get it on all glads normally and i want this guy to be fast)
10 Dual Strike (two attacks instead of one, again yes pls!)
10 Blazing Speed (more attacks!)
10 Uncanny Dodge (dodge attacks, sure why not)
10 Riposte (parry and counter attack, oh ya)
10 Shadow Form (no idea what this does but come on got to have it)

Skills not taking:
Unnatural Agility (Less knockdowns, weapon drops, ensnared) - Honestly i want this skill i just cant figure out what to drop, if something appears to be under preforming from the above list, this will probably go in
Spectral Touch (endurance drain on hit) - this looks like it would go well with the other end ability Chilling Aura, i might have to make a 2nd shadow to try that combo out
Entangle (net and whip stuff) - dont plan on using net's or whips
Chilling Aura (looks like an endurance drain?) - again would like to try it with spectral touch, just not on this first shadow


Big questions for me:

What is the shadows special Fighting Style and what level will it unlock?
Whats the damage going to be like with all those skills?
How much defense will uncanny dodge and riposte be if running offensive?
So many good sounding skills how to pick the right ones?


Side note:
Of course i forgot to set up his fight strategy for his first fight so he went ahead and got that first loss out of the way straight out of the gate *facepalm* but he is on a win streak now!

What is everyone else thinking of this class? I am still up in the air as to what it will be, i am almost looking at it as a more offensive theatrics so far... not really sure yet.

[Kreegan]

Light armour only?

[Cynaidh]

yup he is that *Specialty Restriction in the armory, cant wear med or heavy

[Team Kaos]

I picked up 3 common non HOL slaves with one of my lesser stables so none of them are of supreme breeding. I think it will be a good learning tool during the early roll out to really see where the true strengths and weaknesses are for the skill tree.
They are pretty much even across the board attribute wise. Two will be skilled opposite of each other and the 3rd will be built to split the skills and share a few of each of the other 2.

I've met up with Zynaith and the outcome was expected being overmatched with your full purple gear and + 100 attributes but I think running common slaves will give me a better feel for their strength and weakness against opponents of equal attributes opposed to running through lesser quality slaves with a HOF which is far superior to the majority of the slaves fighting from fresh meat up through Maximus.

[Rhinocervs]

At first I came up with a build quite similar to yours Cyn, but now I'm maybe more interested in building something around Spectral Touch, Entangle and Chilling Aura running more defensive. Well, I'd need to retire another glad to make room for an additional Shadow. Like for the other specialties, at first glance every skill looks very interesting and promising, so I'm still unsure where to go.
As for now I'm rushing through Conquests trying to unlock the first special fighting style, IIRC it happens at level 18 for the other specialties.
I'm really curious about how the skills really work, if they do what I think they do, how they act running different fighting styles and strategies, fighting against different fighting styles and strategies... It's exciting to rely on these (cryptic) descriptions and exploring something new and untried.

[Apoca1ypse]

I have 2 new glads to test things with. Thankfully being able to retrain them means that decent glads wont go totally to waste. That always sucked back in the day.

[Cynaidh]

I picked up 3 common non HOL slaves with one of my lesser stables so none of them are of supreme breeding. I think it will be a good learning tool during the early roll out to really see where the true strengths and weaknesses are for the skill tree.
They are pretty much even across the board attribute wise. Two will be skilled opposite of each other and the 3rd will be built to split the skills and share a few of each of the other 2.

I've met up with Zynaith and the outcome was expected being overmatched with your full purple gear and + 100 attributes but I think running common slaves will give me a better feel for their strength and weakness against opponents of equal attributes opposed to running through lesser quality slaves with a HOF which is far superior to the majority of the slaves fighting from fresh meat up through Maximus.

Looking forward to reading how you feel about the class once we get some levels on them Kaos! Ya i went ahead and followed the gearing plan i have used on my last 5+ HoL slaves, new full sets of purple gear at 5,10,20,30,40,50 I want to be able to compare his progress directly with the last slaves I leveled up.

[Cynaidh]

At first I came up with a build quite similar to yours Cyn, but now I'm maybe more interested in building something around Spectral Touch, Entangle and Chilling Aura running more defensive. Well, I'd need to retire another glad to make room for an additional Shadow. Like for the other specialties, at first glance every skill looks very interesting and promising, so I'm still unsure where to go.
As for now I'm rushing through Conquests trying to unlock the first special fighting style, IIRC it happens at level 18 for the other specialties.
I'm really curious about how the skills really work, if they do what I think they do, how they act running different fighting styles and strategies, fighting against different fighting styles and strategies... It's exciting to rely on these (cryptic) descriptions and exploring something new and untried.

Yup I want to try the other skills too! Waiting on a 2nd slave to pop up that peaks my interest for doing a build focused on the endurance draining skills! And you get experience from running conquests??? I never knew that :)

[Cynaidh]

Ahh the first fighting style unlocks at level 13... Shadow Dance

The flavor text on it is "Dance around and keep him swinging where you used to be and attack from where you weren't!"

[FrosteeFyre]

Ooooh, this class looks VERY interesting, can't wait for the public (aka affordable XD) release, until then I shall sit here and be jealous of all you people who can afford the Shadow class currently :P

[Cynaidh]

Level 18 2nd fighting style - Whirlwind... i missed what it does on this one can someone post it when they get it?

The flavor text when picked is "I wanna see you turn the guy into chunks of meat small enough for a stew! "

So am thinking this one is more offensivily focused then Shadow Dance

[FrosteeFyre]

Sounds like something that would focus on quantity of attacks as opposed to quality, reminds me of Berserk strat from rage tree, but this is all speculation on my end, don't have the Shadow upgrade yet

[Adoede]

The concern I have with the ultra-speed shadow build is how that glad is going to fare against counter-attacking theatrics. I suspect not very well...

I am intrigued with the endurance-draining build idea though...certainly something new.

And one more thing: does anyone know the name and theme of the third school that Nate is developing? I'd like to start preparing some spots for those guys as well.

[Cynaidh]

Sounds like something that would focus on quantity of attacks as opposed to quality, reminds me of Berserk strat from rage tree, but this is all speculation on my end, don't have the Shadow upgrade yet

Yup that is what it appears to be, i think i like shadow dance better for my starting trigger, and then maybe using whirlwind when the opponent is on the ground or stunned.

[Cynaidh]

The concern I have with the ultra-speed shadow build is how that glad is going to fare against counter-attacking theatrics. I suspect not very well...

I am intrigued with the endurance-draining build idea though...certainly something new.

And one more thing: does anyone know the name and theme of the third school that Nate is developing? I'd like to start preparing some spots for those guys as well.

That is a match up i am looking forward to seeing, i think it will do better then a rage due to all the defensive skills the shadow has, i am guessing a lot of the counter attacks will miss (due to shadow dance fighting style, uncanny dodge, and shadowform) and of course if you take the riposte skill, you can counter attack their counter attack!

The drain build does looks very interesting, i have started a 2nd shadow who has less agility but more pres and chi then my first shadow to try it out myself.

[Seventhunderz]

That is a match up i am looking forward to seeing, i think it will do better then a rage due to all the defensive skills the shadow has, i am guessing a lot of the counter attacks will miss (due to shadow dance fighting style, uncanny dodge, and shadowform) and of course if you take the riposte skill, you can counter attack their counter attack!

The drain build does looks very interesting, i have started a 2nd shadow who has less agility but more pres and chi then my first shadow to try it out myself.

I came across Zynaith while i was on my counterattack Theatrics yesterday and thought of this.
Normally I would have avoided a fight with one of that record, but made the challenge so you could see the counter attack theory.

[Cynaidh]

I came across Zynaith while i was on my counterattack Theatrics yesterday and thought of this.
Normally I would have avoided a fight with one of that record, but made the challenge so you could see the counter attack theory.

He wont have those skills till 40's :) bit young yet

[Pit Lord]

I am intrigued with the endurance-draining build idea though...certainly something new.


In the time of the old Arms & Armour tree there was a skill in the theatrics tree that drained the opponent stamina. There was a defensive gladiator named Chuck Norris run by Pirate Booty stable with strategy based around draining the opponent stamina. His matches were entertainment to see because they were very different style from any other gladiator in the arena. Its one of the top builds all time in terms of originality in my opinion although it didn't dominate the arena (but was very close in winning one of the blood games - old style blood games, one month long).

[Kreegan]

Judging from the performance of the Tavern pests, Spectral Touch drains huge amount of endurance. Just lost around 50 points against some lvl 55 daemon. Seems like it's percentage-based.

[Stormcloak]

I just did a gauntlet run and Unholy Guardian (260 Endurance) got knocked down about 70 points with each spectral touch! Definitely supports your theory Kreegan.

[Team Kaos]

Indeed, Spectral Touch is pretty bad ass. Just messing around with some Gauntlet work and low and behold your half drained before you lift your weapon. Wonder if armor type reduces its drain. Hubba took only about 12.5% hit in his Gold Heavy Armor while Prodigal was zapped at just about 30% in his Epic/Gold light/med armor.
Certainly could prove devastating to a Rage and Theatrics that cant land huge crits on high agility shadow dancers

http://http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz317/xtremetrader/touch1_zps870ff573.png (http://
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz317/xtremetrader/touch1_zps870ff573.png)

http://http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz317/xtremetrader/touch2_zps65d5f191.png (http://s839.photobucket.com/user/xtremetrader/media/touch2_zps65d5f191.png.html)

[Apoca1ypse]

Jeez, thats scary!

[Adoede]

You guys talked up Spectral Touch so much I thought I'd check for myself. Took Seraph Zeta in a Hard Gauntlet run solo. Nobody mentioned that Spectral Touch only drains endurance some of the times it hits and other times it does...nothing. It can also be blocked and deflected. Out of 22 Spectral Touches against Seraph Zeta in eight rounds, only 3 drained his endurance (about 11%). On top of that, the most I saw anyone throw Spectral Touch was once every 6 rounds...and no one gladiator threw more than 3 of them in a fight over 25 minutes.

In the end, Seraph Zeta still dropped all opponents from exhaustion - Spectral Touch be darned. Maybe it will be better with a real manager using it, but it definitely has its strengths and weaknesses.

[Kreegan]

I don't expect it to be incredibly effective vs. defensive Wars (yes, deflections, Create Distance) but the other builds should definitely be scared of that skill. It reminds me of Rampage targeting the endurance. It has to be tested in Blood Gods for sure though.

[Team Kaos]

You guys talked up Spectral Touch so much I thought I'd check for myself. Took Seraph Zeta in a Hard Gauntlet run solo. Nobody mentioned that Spectral Touch only drains endurance some of the times it hits and other times it does...nothing. It can also be blocked and deflected. Out of 22 Spectral Touches against Seraph Zeta in eight rounds, only 3 drained his endurance (about 11%). On top of that, the most I saw anyone throw Spectral Touch was once every 6 rounds...and no one gladiator threw more than 3 of them in a fight over 25 minutes.

In the end, Seraph Zeta still dropped all opponents from exhaustion - Spectral Touch be darned. Maybe it will be better with a real manager using it, but it definitely has its strengths and weaknesses.

That's in line with what I showed and said, Seraph Zeta is hunkering down in Gold Heavy Armor, of course it can be blocked, its an activated offensive attack.

As always, not every skill is designed for every opponent, the strategy to drain out a tank is probably not the best approach for a non tank fighter.
There is also the passive Chilling Aura at lvl 50 that likely heaps a supersized serving of energy drain.
You mentioned you gave it a run through on Hard, let me know if you give it a whirl on Nightmare and what the effects boost up to.

[Adoede]

Alright, tried it on Nightmare with Duke Nukem and Seraph Zeta. As luck would have it, matched up against three shadows and filler in the first round. Very interesting fight.

Two of the shadows tried spectral touch 6 times and only got through once. That hit took 35 stamina from Duke Nukem's 268. That's about 13% of his total. Nothing dangerous there.

The other guy...oh man. Hit with Spectral Touch 4 times and drained stamina all four times. He also drained 75-77 endurance per hit. That's about 28% (my guess is it's percentage based depending on your stats). He must be running with Chilling Aura as well and have stats suited for those skills.

How did the fight end, you ask? Duke Nukem got taken down in the last minute by a flurry of blows (Dual Strike seems to be very effective against heavy armor). Seraph Zeta was mano-a-mano against that "other guy". That guy hit with his fourth spectral touch of the match...and Seraph Zeta went down from exhaustion from the blow in minute twenty-something. So yes, I believe I was the first glad to be found with full legendary heavy armor intact and eerily defeated by a shadow blow.

One other thing - one of the glads was triggering Spectral Touch every 5 rounds (not 6 as previously noted).

If this attack truly takes more than a quarter of one's endurance in one shot, it will be devastating to everybody. Looks like a really fun build. And a tank-killer.

[Cynaidh]

So spectral touch sounds nice!

I did start a 2nd glad with high pres and chi to try out spectral touch, the glad i am going with for this build is Drayn who has the stats: 71-91-81-80-67-83-82

Planning on going:

10 exotic
10 spectral touch (gah it sucks you have to wait till level 20 to skip the teir 2 skills if you have 10 weapon skill, going to do some stat training till 20 i guess)
10 weapon finesse
10 armor movement
10 dual strike
10 blazing speed
10 entangle
10 uncanny dodge
10 riposte
10 chilling aura

The thought is to use whip/net and keep them entangled or knocked down till their stamina is drained out.

[Team Kaos]

Well I can honestly say after about 500 combined fights, I have yet to figure out a consistent strategy to land critical hits. A few here and there but a whole lot of glancing and 20 or less point hits.
I have two glads running with Spectral Touch and its really been the biggest asset for them so far, with the ability to i]tire out even some tanking war's. None are past level 30 yet, so its premature to make any judgements on the other skills. Although the one glad not running Spectral Touch is not fairing as well with Sixth Sense and Weapon Finesse. I was hoping to see a pretty good increase in initiative and critical's but so far no returns.

[Dainoji]

I was hoping to see a pretty good increase in initiative and critical's but so far no returns.

Not sure why you would be hoping to see this. None of the skills you mentioned say they would do that. Sixth Sense lowers the opponent's defense and Weapon Finesse increases your attack power and defense. I suppose the higher attack power will help with better crits, but for a skill that doesn't outright say it will do that I wouldn't expect much in that area. I noticed my shadow glad starting winning a lot more after maxing Weapon Finesse though. If you want increased initiative you'll need to train Blazing Speed and increasing your agility and presence will help too. For increased crits, I don't see anything in the Shadow tree that does that. You can try increasing your chi and using the Spite race though. Probably play around with your blood lust as well along with activity level.

Spectral touch is awesome and I look forward to dropping all the tanks with it. I predict this specialty is going to force a shift in the meta regarding how tanks are managed due to the new mechanic of being able to attack endurance and not just health. Adds another interesting dimension to the game.

[Ogornomus]

I don't have a shadow trainer my self, but I have encountered some shadow gladiators and most of them look like speed rages. No armor, a lor of attacks with blade(exotic) weapons.
So far so standard. As my gladiators leveled up I saw a few shadow with Spectral Touch. Now that is scary. It shaved off almost third of my tank gladiator's endurance (twice).
It's only downside is that it doesn't do damage, other than that I don't see a point why a shadow would not have it.
Unlike defensive gladiators who tire out opponents over time, by managing their stamina better then the opponent, the shadow actively drains it while maintaining good attack. Maybe it's me but I don't see how a defensive gladiator can win. If I attack I lose because I gave up defence and the shadow is a better attacker, if I defend he will just drain me.
Also if someone has endurance management triggers where the gladiator takes less attacks or with less bloodlust, Spectral Touch can trigger it prematurely therefore mittigating damage.
Maybe if it didn't drain so much endurance...

Also there are some shadows who were realy hard to hit, even though they don't have shields. Maybe because they were HoL slaves, but I guess it was one of the skills/strategies available to them. I like those.

I hope the other two specialisations in Shadow & Myst will at least be able to wear medium if not heavy armor. I don't like my gladiators dressed in rags.

[Cynaidh]

Spectral Touch does seem like it will be a meta changer once some of the shadow drain type builds get up to level 55 and start touching all the high hit point slow attacking glads in all the wrong places.

The defensive skills seem to be really nice once you get them to 10. Seeing more and more fights like this now:

The Enforcer looks to the crowd and promises a bloody fight!
R O U N D 1
>> ZYNAITH SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
>> <Name Retracted> SWITCHES TO STRATEGY 1
ZYNAITH moves furiously trying to gain the advantage.
ZYNAITH strikes at <Name Retracted> and looks to lance him.
ZYNAITH attacks twice in rapid succession! (-Dual Strike-)
ZYNAITH's TRIDENT OF GLOQ'SO tastes victory and inflicts towering injuries on <Name Retracted> shoulder blade! (+439 Damage)

<Name Retracted>moves furiously trying to gain the advantage.
<Name Retracted>swings his EPIC MACE in a wide arc toward ZYNAITH.
<Name Retracted>weapon screams through the air as it descends upon ZYNAITH! (-Rampage-)
In a blur of motion, ZYNAITH slides out of harms way! (-Uncanny Dodge-)

ZYNAITH hustles frantically around <Name Retracted>.
ZYNAITH attempts to strike his enemy.
ZYNAITH's HEROIC CESTUS connects with <Name Retracted>gut causing major damage! (+69 Damage)

<Name Retracted> makes a swift bashing strike with his EPIC MACE.
ZYNAITH deftly redirects the attack and counters! (-Riposte-)

ZYNAITH dashes right at his adversary.
ZYNAITH moves towards <Name Retracted> and attempts to kill him.
A magnificent wound is opened on <Name Retracted>lower back! (+210 Damage)

R O U N D 2
ZYNAITH decides to attack with the other hand.
ZYNAITH tries to skewer his adversary.
ZYNAITH smiles after the monstrous hit to <Name Retracted>torso! (+90 Damage)

ZYNAITH pelts like wild fire around <Name Retracted>.
ZYNAITH looks to an off handed strike to deal damage.
ZYNAITH advances on <Name Retracted>and attempts to strike his opponent.
Savage lunge above <Name Retracted>waist punctures a kidney and destroys all healthy tissue in the blades path! (+105 Damage)

ZYNAITH's TRIDENT OF GLOQ'SO darts toward <Name Retracted>with unbelievable speed.
The blow to <Name Retracted>shoulder blade lands with beastly force! (+210 Damage)

<Name Retracted>begins to plea for his worthless life and after a moment of thought ZYNAITH spits on the pitiful fool and walks away!

The fight lasted 17 seconds!

[Dainoji]

You'd make a terrible NSA agent, you missed a spot with the name retractions! Or was it a cleverly played leak... :)

[Cynaidh]

Gah, i was trying to keep it neutral :) I fixed it... unless i missed another one.

[Kuljem]

Doesn't that make Shadow way too powerful?
I mean, you use both offensive and defensive activations frequently using probably some offensive style. You attack first and yet you use all defensive actives...

Or am I missing the point?

[Cynaidh]

Zynaith is using the more defensive style they get in the above "Shadow Dance", the offensive style "Whirlwind" i haven't really started experimenting with it yet.

[Cynaidh]

And Zynaith finished his build today....

http://i58.tinypic.com/2hn6qhk.jpg

Now to get Drayn leveled up with his build for endurance drain!

[Kuljem]

I really want to know how do you develop glads so fast?

I have one glad that managed to get weapon skill lvl 10(only skill) at his 27 lvl... And he has good stats for normal glad.
There hasn't been case where i spent less then a few weeks to develop one skill from lvl 9(0%) to lvl 10.

Please, share secret with me. : /


PS. Picture looks great!

[Cynaidh]

Honestly Zynaith is one of the fastest learning glads i have ever had, i am guessing the 93 int he has had a lot to do with it, but besides that having memberships to Skull's Gym and The Blood Academy are very very important if you want to train gladiators extremely fast, run conquests for extra fight tokens (that's 4 training points each token with the Skull's Gym) as much as you can, and of course do the tavern missions every day.

[Team Kaos]

I really want to know how do you develop glads so fast?

I have one glad that managed to get weapon skill lvl 10(only skill) at his 27 lvl... And he has good stats for normal glad.
There hasn't been case where i spent less then a few weeks to develop one skill from lvl 9(0%) to lvl 10.

Please, share secret with me. : /


PS. Picture looks great!


Honestly Zynaith is one of the fastest learning glads i have ever had, i am guessing the 93 int he has had a lot to do with it, but besides that having memberships to Skull's Gym and The Blood Academy are very very important if you want to train gladiators extremely fast, run conquests for extra fight tokens (that's 4 training points each token with the Skull's Gym) as much as you can, and of course do the tavern missions every day.

I think it would be more accurate to say that you are doing a massive amount of conquest missions or just trophying additional fights with Zynaith to have so many fights done so far. Zynaith has over 600 fights under his belt which easily accounts for his completed training.
In comparison Moon Spike which I created a day after you created Zynaith has just short of 330 fights and just 64 skill trains as of today and is yet to reach level 40. His high INT has played a negligible part to do with the lightning speed of his accent.

[Cynaidh]

I think it would be more accurate to say that you are doing a massive amount of conquest missions or just trophying additional fights with Zynaith to have so many fights done so far. Zynaith has over 600 fights under his belt which easily accounts for his completed training.
In comparison Moon Strike which I created a day after you created Zynaith has just short of 330 fights and just 64 skill trains as of today and is yet to reach level 40. His high INT has played a negligible part to do with the lightning speed of his accent.

Yup i think i have done more conquest missions on Zynaith then i have ever done on my previous glads combined and i have done trophie fights too (his fights are just fun to read, have been totally enjoying myself leveling him). I had not considered running conquests for fight tokens until it was mentioned in a thread shortly after i made Zynaidh but they make a huge difference and they are quite easy to run while working. :)

But still Zynaith is the first glad i've had issues with the level requirements on the skills, for example he hit 90 total skill trains at level 46-47 so i had to do stat trains for a few levels before i could start Shadow Form, this happened a couple times while he was leveling, normally only a day or 2 of having to train stats but it was enough that i had his stamina trained 10 times and was working on agility before he hit 50.

[crow]

First of all nice to see a lot of older manager's playing. Hope everyone is doing well.

I have been really enjoying the learning this new specialty, been doing a lot of tinkering with Shadow Dance and Whirlwind every time I think I have some of it figured out my theory gets BLOWN UP!!! but that is part of the fun. Of course I have been mulling over skill builds everyday. One thing I have been seeing is out of my 2 shadow glads, one triggers spectral touch a lot while the other rarely does it, even when I set their strategies the same and both are level 10. My more advanced glad also recently got Uncanny Dodge and it is up to level 9 and.....it has never triggered ( I assume it triggers since it is an activated move).

As for the Meta game itself, these glads are gonna definitely change the strategy of War Tank glads, as they drain them very quickly. Another aspect is Spites might make a huge comeback in usage. Last year it seemed like every glad was an Elaar. Also I see a big use in Snivlers with the shadow race as well. I would not be surprised to see folks using Urks in theatrics and wars for the added endurance. Bottom line it seems like a lot of the older managers are having a lot of fun again learning.

Last for Nate,
When are you gonna start teasing us with the next specialty :)

Crow

[Cynaidh]

Hey Crow its been a long time!

I also didn't see it trigger much till i got 10 points into Uncanny Dodge, I also though Riposte was broken, i saw it proc 1 time from 1 point in it to 9 and then soon as i got the 10th point into it I started seeing it every fight. So for me at least they both didn't do much, if anything, till i had 10 points in them.

[Cynaidh]

And Drayn finished his skill training, still not sure what chilling aura is doing... haven't really noticed that big of a difference from before having it and after.

http://i57.tinypic.com/2qv84n4.png


After doing these two I decided i want to do a 3rd shadow as a kinda hybrid build of the two. So new slave getting started today who is going to have Shadow Form i think as his end skill but run Spectral touch, not sure which skill i will drop yet, perhaps the one that makes you target injuries (i am still not sold its that useful especially end game where i would imagine a lot of managers are using auto-heal).

http://i60.tinypic.com/34o3dra.png

[Stormcloak]

Cyn - you're making me jealous!
This speciality seems to be quite potent, at least in my encounters against it - it seems like it combines speed with the ability to hit the tanks pretty hard with the endurance drain (like it's somewhere in the middle of speed/power in the triangle?) Has any particular build been troubling for it? I'm looking forward to seeing how Zyn does once he gets into the Blood Gods.

[Adoede]

That is a mighty fine prospect you've got there...579 stat points...making him the 2nd best I've ever seen (after Ahhnold's 591). Seeing as how you've got several tremendous prospects in the shadow form and they are the most advanced of their kin, I think it is appropriate to grant you the early title of "shadow master". Looking forward to reading your shadow guide once you've decided to take ownership of that title :cool:

[Cynaidh]

Cyn - you're making me jealous!
This speciality seems to be quite potent, at least in my encounters against it - it seems like it combines speed with the ability to hit the tanks pretty hard with the endurance drain (like it's somewhere in the middle of speed/power in the triangle?) Has any particular build been troubling for it? I'm looking forward to seeing how Zyn does once he gets into the Blood Gods.

I'd say their weak point is speed glads either rage or theatrics, anything that can get 2 or more attacks per round then they do, those fights seem to be where I have seen the most losses. Heavy hitting 2-handed warriors can beat them easily leveling up but once you get uncanny dodge and riposte if one of those skills goes off a single time they that generally means its a win vs them.

[Cynaidh]

That is a mighty fine prospect you've got there...579 stat points...making him the 2nd best I've ever seen (after Ahhnold's 591). Seeing as how you've got several tremendous prospects in the shadow form and they are the most advanced of their kin, I think it is appropriate to grant you the early title of "shadow master". Looking forward to reading your shadow guide once you've decided to take ownership of that title :cool:

I'm still along way away from writing a guide. :) Too many questions still on this class, biggest one for me this week is figuring out what Chilling Aura actually does, so far I haven't really noticed any difference since picking it up on Drayn. I was hoping it was going to be a passive endurance drain but it doesn't seem to do that (up against a tank for 3 rounds his endurance didn't move, only moved on spectral touch hits) and it doesn't seem to slow down the speed rages that pound on him, honestly at this point i have no idea what it does.

[Zel]

I am hoping Nate can shine some light on Chilling Aura, i was going to take it on Val once he got high enough but now i'm not even sure i want to take it. Maybe it's a bug?

[Nate]

Sure, I shed some light on this! I strongly recommend you carefully examine your fights and then compare and contrast your opponent's fights against other gladiators and see what you can find! If you are waiting for your opponent to turn into an ice sculpture and shatter upon impact you'll want to stop looking for that! Although that would be pretty cool! ;)

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[Cynaidh]

Sure, I shed some light on this! I strongly recommend you carefully examine your fights and then compare and contrast your opponent's fights against other gladiators and see what you can find! If you are waiting for your opponent to turn into an ice sculpture and shatter upon impact you'll want to stop looking for that! Although that would be pretty cool! ;)

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

Ya, even picked up the scribe this weekend to do this.... still haven't figured it out.

Things i am "thinking" that it maybe does:

Makes Spectral Touch drain more - have noticed some 50+ drain hits lately and i don't remember them being that high before having the skill leveled (i am really hoping this isn't what it does, buffing a skill that can only go off 1 time per round seems blah)

Maybe it makes opponents attack less per round, no really data on this just seems like this might be happening based on how many times glads are attacking him.

Besides those two, haven't noticed anything else.

[Zel]

Sure, I shed some light on this! I strongly recommend you carefully examine your fights and then compare and contrast your opponent's fights against other gladiators and see what you can find! If you are waiting for your opponent to turn into an ice sculpture and shatter upon impact you'll want to stop looking for that! Although that would be pretty cool! ;)

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

Nate you tease, guess it will take some more time to figure out. My shadow is not yet high enough to take it and im still on the fence about it after reading what Cyn said lol

Cyn, Side note - Keen Eye works well for me esp if Val gets a hit in and causes a serious injury he will target it 90% of the time

[Nate]

Last for Nate,
When are you gonna start teasing us with the next specialty :)

Sooner than later! :)

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[Nate]

Ya, even picked up the scribe this weekend to do this.... still haven't figured it out.

Things i am "thinking" that it maybe does:

Makes Spectral Touch drain more - have noticed some 50+ drain hits lately and i don't remember them being that high before having the skill leveled (i am really hoping this isn't what it does, buffing a skill that can only go off 1 time per round seems blah)

Maybe it makes opponents attack less per round, no really data on this just seems like this might be happening based on how many times glads are attacking him.

Besides those two, haven't noticed anything else.

The scientific method is your friend. :)

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[Nate]

Nate you tease, guess it will take some more time to figure out. My shadow is not yet high enough to take it and im still on the fence about it after reading what Cyn said lol


Be careful about letting another manager's experience guide your decisions, even a very competent one like Cyn. Everyone has different management styles and each gladiator has different strategies and builds. Add to that different matchups and you are dealing with a huge data set much different from what you will see. Have fun and entertain the crowd!

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[Zel]

Gratz to Zyn on making it to BG!

[Adoede]

Hey Cyn, I've got a few questions for you about your advanced shadow glads:

1) How often does your Spectral Touch trigger? Most I've seen is once every 5 rounds.
2) How often does lvl 10 Uncanny Dodge and Riposte trigger? Once every other round max I assume?
3) Does Shadow Form basically negate armor - are you able to hit tanks through their heavy armor well?

Thanks

[Cynaidh]

Hey Cyn, I've got a few questions for you about your advanced shadow glads:

1) How often does your Spectral Touch trigger? Most I've seen is once every 5 rounds.
2) How often does lvl 10 Uncanny Dodge and Riposte trigger? Once every other round max I assume?
3) Does Shadow Form basically negate armor - are you able to hit tanks through their heavy armor well?

Thanks

1) Looking at Drayn's last few fights, listing what round Spectral Touch fired and then how the fight ended:
First Fight: Round 2, Round 8, won by exhaustion
Second Fight: Round 4, won by damage
Third Fight: (didn't fire, 8 round fight) won by exhaustion, what?
Fourth Fight: Round 11, won by exhaustion
Fifth Fight: Round 2, lost by damage
Sixth Fight: Round 1, won by damage
Seventh Fight: (didn't fire, 4 round fight) won by damage
Eighth Fight: Round 3, won by exhaustion
Ninth Fight: (didn't fire, 7 round fight) lost by damage
Tenth Fight: Round 1, won by exhaustion
about 16 fights back: Round 2, Round 7, won by damage

So it can fire every 5, but it doesnt even fire off twice that often, and suprisingly is a lot of fights where it never fires at all, I looked at these fights with "blow by blow details" checked to make sure there wasn't any parried or anything like that

2) Will Look at Zynaiths for these:
First Fight: Round 1 Riposte, won on round 2 by damage
Second Fight: Round 1 Riposte, won on round 1 by damage
Third Fight: (didn't fire) won on round 2 by damage
Fourth Fight: Round 1 Riposte, won on round 2 by damage
Fifth Fight: (didn't fire) won on round 6 by damage (vs polearm warrior)
Sixth Fight: Round 2 Riposte, won on round 4 by damage
Seventh Fight: (didn't fire) won on round 3 by damage (vs polearm warrior)
Eighth Fight: (didn't fire) won on round 2 by damage
Ninth Fight: Round 1 Riposte, won on round 4 by damage
Tenth Fight: (didn't fire) won on round 2 by damage
Fight with 2 Ripostes: round 1 and 5

In the past 25 fights he has not had a single uncanny dodge.... Looking at Drayn he has 1 uncanny dodge in the past 10 fights.... Hmm that seems not so great of a skill looking at it now.

3) It raised his damage a lot I believe, with a level 51 trident and 50 cestus (both legendary) i am seeing the trident hit for 400-600 and the cestus in the 200-350 range vs plate armor, non-injury hits. Injury hits i have seen up to 1800 with the trident.

[Dainoji]

Uncanny Dodge will only trigger when your opponent uses an offensive skill. That means you'll rarely see it against defensive oriented glads and if you aren't also fighting defensively it won't trigger as much as it is also a defensive skill. My Shadow glad triggers it enough to where I feel it is useful, especially when dodging a Rampage. If your Shadow build is mostly offensive you can probably skip it. If you plan on being both or mostly defensive I'd take it.

Spectral Touch is most dangerous against tanks who stand around the majority of the time as the rounds come and go really fast when nothing is happening. If my shadow glad gets in 3 he wins which isn't hard to do again a tank. We'll have to see what happens in blood gods where it looks like all the tanks are starting to load up on block rank at the moment. Against a speed glad you'll get one in per fight which won't win it for you but it may cause him to slow down or switch strategies earlier than usual.

[Adoede]

Hey Cynaidh, thanks for the detailed response. That confirms what I've been noticing.

Something else I've observed that might be interesting:
Spectral touch without Chilling Aura = ~28% - 30% drain per hit.
Spectral touch with Chilling Aura = ~30% - 35% drain per hit.
Not much of a difference if you ask me.

[crow]

Just want to throw my 2 cents on the shadow skills. I have uncanny dodge and riposte on one of my glads and either of these skills rarely go off. And Riposte does not do much except block the incoming strike, the return counter strike does not occur most of the time. I have ran with several different strategies to see if a particular fighting style helps them trigger more, but nothing looks any different.

So for my other 2 shadow builds I am ignoring those 2 skills all together. Another thing to note, I don't have chilling aura but I do have shadow form and I have seen a good jump in damage per strike with it from my glad that has it.

[Zel]

Just want to throw my 2 cents on the shadow skills. I have uncanny dodge and riposte on one of my glads and either of these skills rarely go off. And Riposte does not do much except block the incoming strike, the return counter strike does not occur most of the time. I have ran with several different strategies to see if a particular fighting style helps them trigger more, but nothing looks any different.

So for my other 2 shadow builds I am ignoring those 2 skills all together. Another thing to note, I don't have chilling aura but I do have shadow form and I have seen a good jump in damage per strike with it from my glad that has it.

Are both Riposte and Uncanny dodge at 10?

[Zel]

Just want to throw my 2 cents on the shadow skills. I have uncanny dodge and riposte on one of my glads and either of these skills rarely go off. And Riposte does not do much except block the incoming strike, the return counter strike does not occur most of the time. I have ran with several different strategies to see if a particular fighting style helps them trigger more, but nothing looks any different.

So for my other 2 shadow builds I am ignoring those 2 skills all together. Another thing to note, I don't have chilling aura but I do have shadow form and I have seen a good jump in damage per strike with it from my glad that has it.

Are both Riposte and Uncanny dodge at 10?

[Stormcloak]

Spectral Touch is most dangerous against tanks who stand around the majority of the time as the rounds come and go really fast when nothing is happening. If my shadow glad gets in 3 he wins which isn't hard to do again a tank. We'll have to see what happens in blood gods where it looks like all the tanks are starting to load up on block rank at the moment. Against a speed glad you'll get one in per fight which won't win it for you but it may cause him to slow down or switch strategies earlier than usual.

It's also quite powerful against offensive/hybrid/balanced warrior's too - ones where it may take up to a dozen rounds for them to finish off an opponent. A couple of 30% stamina drains can make a huge difference there. Nevertheless, I'm glad to see something to challenge up the "loafer" tanks (as Kreegan put it in another thread). There's quite a bit of them in the lower brackets, so they may be in for a surprise once shadow becomes more established. With the activation frequency, I think an interesting idea could be to also have it activate more frequently the longer a match drags on (for example, once in the first 8 rounds, again in the next 4, and then every other round or something to that effect) or maybe starting with a lower endurance drain and then ramping it up as the match goes on.

[Pit Lord]

I think shadow skill tree has similarity with theatric skill tree. The skills look somewhat stronger then theatrics skills while the ability to use medium armor/shield is lost for balance. The idea of light armored theatric that some had tried in the past but with no great success has come alive.

[Adoede]

Hey Cynaidh, thanks for the detailed response. That confirms what I've been noticing.

Something else I've observed that might be interesting:
Spectral touch without Chilling Aura = ~28% - 30% drain per hit.
Spectral touch with Chilling Aura = ~30% - 35% drain per hit.
Not much of a difference if you ask me.

I just realized that this difference might just be because the glad using chilling aura is a Spite. Maybe the difference is due to the spite critical effects bonus instead of chilling aura boost.

[Cynaidh]

Ya i know i am not particularly impressed with Chilling Aura on Drayn, it just doesn't seem to help much at all. I have a feeling Drayn might be getting retired soon as he hits 1000 fights, not sure if this build is anything i want to try to get to level 55.

Speaking of level 55, Zynaidh is now in the leveling hell of going from 50 to 55, I am finding this to be the most unfun aspect of pit of war currently, i don't get what the point of having months of leveling time where you are matched up with people at level 55 and the new level 55 gear (that's just insainly better stats, talk about gear inflation) really is for, its not fun, i don't see how it serves any purpose except as a time gate of 3-4 months, where you have nothing to do but tavern missions to try and speed it up a bit, before you can be competitive. Its the most boring wait i've ever seen in the pits. He isn't even halfway threw this god forsaken exp grind so still probably a couple of months before I'll be able to see how he can do against level 55 glads on an even playing field.

[oedi]

took me about 5 months to catch up, and get all my old glads to lvl 55. So for 5 months the only thing i did was log into the game to keep my glads active, just didnt see any point in doing any of the other stuff.

[Adoede]

Here's the missing description of Whirlwind:

When using Whirlwind you will spin and jump around at great speed turning into a moving blender of death and destruction!

I tried attacking the same glad with Shadow Dance, Lunge and then with Whirlwind and this is what happened:
Shadow Dance - 3 attacks/round
Lunge - 4 attacks/round
Whirlwind - 5 attacks/round

Obviously, Shadow dance trades offense for balanced defense. But Whirlwind seems to boost initiative quite a bit.

Also, I like how shadows can switch between full-on offense and good dodging defense just by using strategies. This is better than the Rage class where you have to build them either as Total Carnage offensive beasts OR as Evasive Hit'n'Run specialists. It would be nice if Rages could also switch between offense and defense just by switching strategies instead of it being built into their skill trees to be one or the other.

[Adoede]

Ya i know i am not particularly impressed with Chilling Aura on Drayn, it just doesn't seem to help much at all. I have a feeling Drayn might be getting retired soon as he hits 1000 fights, not sure if this build is anything i want to try to get to level 55.

So what have you noticed in terms of how Chilling Aura works? Other than slowing down opponent's initiative, does it do anything else?

[Cynaidh]

So what have you noticed in terms of how Chilling Aura works? Other than slowing down opponent's initiative, does it do anything else?

I have yet to figure out what it does, it's just too vague of a description, and since its not an active proc there isn't really any way to know what it does for certain.

[Adoede]

Thanks Cynaidh. I'm a ways away from being able to experiment with it, but I have a suspicion that it might be like a permanent "Entangle" effect on the opposing glad. That means - faster stamina drain, reduced initiative, and overall reduction in combat effectiveness. Does that seem to jive with what you've seen it do?

[Cynaidh]

That's what i was hoping it was going to do too, all those things you listed. :)

But i've seen no evidence that it has any passive stamina drain at all. As for reduced Initiative, rages still get the jump on my shadow who has it (also the glad has the increased initiative skill) so i am not sure if it does that either, honestly i haven't seen that it does anything at all.

These type of skills where its a guess as to what they do are aggravating to me, it seems silly to have to try and evaluate a skill without even knowing what its supposed to be doing. All I can say so far is that as a top tier skill, i wouldn't take this since shadow form seemed to make a noticeable damage increase after taking it.

[Stormcloak]

Wow Cyn... Drayn knocked Agravaine down 68/130 endurance in the first round! The spectral touch alone knocked off 47 points, but comparing to a few other fights it looks like Agravaine chewed up more endurance with the first two blows exchanged (4 pts on strategy 1, 11 points on strategy 3, compared to 2 and 6 which looks normal in other cases)

[Adoede]

And I can vouch that Chilling Aura reduces the number of opponent attacks significantly too. Maybe the opponent still gets the first strike, but their overall number of attacks is decreased. So that confirms Chilling Aura reduces opponents attacks and nearly doubles their endurance usage per attack. No real way to confirm if it also reduces their combat effectiveness, but just those two effects seem potentially useful. I wonder how it would fare in a build that maximized Int, Pres, Chi? If I find a suitable glad, I'll give that monstrosity a try :)

[Cynaidh]

I wonder how it would fare in a build that maximized Int, Pres, Chi? If I find a suitable glad, I'll give that monstrosity a try :)

Thats what Drayn is, 100 int, 92 pres, 91 chi - after stat trains he is almost fully trained now only a couple of points in str left


nearly doubles their endurance usage per attack.

Yup i have seen this also opponents spending 10-12 endurance for an attack rather then the normal amount, it doesn't seem to happen every attack though, they still get attacks at the normal cost too. I am wondering if it has something to do with their current endurance level it seems the higher drains 11 and 12 happen at the start of a fight when they are full, and towards the end it drops to 3-4 per attack. That was vs a Warrior, the next fight vs a speed rage there was no effect at all it seems on his endurance cost, every attack the speed rage made cost him 2-4 endurance.... the rage made 7 attacks and was 72/94 (he was also hit twice by drayn). And 7 attacks with 2 rapiers seems like a normal amount in fact he was on the ground after the first attack, so 1 normal attack, then 6 attacks from the ground (drayn was not stunned either).

[Stormcloak]

Have you noticed any more if there's a trend between endurance drain against the different classes?

[Zel]

Honestly, i'm debating on making Val try a 5/5 on Tier 6 skills i'm curious... Unless the Shadow Form Advantage is OP?

[Ogornomus]

Ok, I must comment on this. I find stamina drain on shadows stupidly powerful. Seriously, shadows are loaded with total damage mitigation skills like Uncany Dodge and Riposte, all the while they only have to Spectral Touch you two times. I feel that anything not a full offensive rage has no chance against them. Because it looks like percentage based stamina drain to me, nothing realy matters agains them (like health or how much stamina you stacked).

Maybe I just see the differnece between a well equipped HoL shadow gladiator and my non HoL slaves with ok equipment. Most of my gladiators struggle to hit them while they get their stamina drained.

I know this thread is about shadow skill and strenght, but what is the counter to them (the stamina drain ones)?

[Cynaidh]

I know this thread is about shadow skill and strenght, but what is the counter to them (the stamina drain ones)?

Anything fast really, speed rages and speed theatrics, and power hitting 2h users are their direct counter i would say. Be interesting to see what others think.

[Zel]

Anything fast really, speed rages and speed theatrics, and power hitting 2h users are their direct counter i would say. Be interesting to see what others think.

I would have to say i agree. Cyn what do you think about splitting the tier 6 skills? 5/5? I have a feeling Iron posted after Faceless ran into Val.

[Team Kaos]

Ok, I must comment on this. I find stamina drain on shadows stupidly powerful. Seriously, shadows are loaded with total damage mitigation skills like Uncany Dodge and Riposte, all the while they only have to Spectral Touch you two times. I feel that anything not a full offensive rage has no chance against them. Because it looks like percentage based stamina drain to me, nothing realy matters agains them (like health or how much stamina you stacked).

Maybe I just see the differnece between a well equipped HoL shadow gladiator and my non HoL slaves with ok equipment. Most of my gladiators struggle to hit them while they get their stamina drained.

I know this thread is about shadow skill and strenght, but what is the counter to them (the stamina drain ones)?

First off, you are correct. Most of the Shadows are HOL glads, so they will be a tough nut to crack with a run of the mill slave anyway. However, from the 4 Shadows I run and the Shadows I go up against the best bet to take them out is to do it early and hard.

2H Wars and Rages can do well against certain Shadow builds but those with both Uncanny Dodge and Riposte are difficult for them as the can and will avoid getting hit with the big DFA or Rampage while landing multiple hits and draining endurance each round. So a Shadow that utilizes Uncanny Dodge and Riposte well are a bad match up for 2H.

Shadows vs tanks will all but drain them out, however with a good strategy and going tank/active on opposing rounds can lead to neutralizing Spectral Touch at times. Sometimes a Spectral Touch will not drain on a Tank everytime and that can be the bout changer if the tank go active at the right time.

Shadows are very different from all the other specialties so there is no 1 specific way to beat them. But getting to them fast and early seems to work best, but then again that works against most.

[Stormcloak]

I may be in agreement with Ogor on Spectral Touch, in relation to Shadow vs. War, taking into account it's based on my experience, and a good portion of the shadows are HOL's from well established Stables, and that we only have one shadow in Blood Gods for endgame comparison and Zyn doesn't use that skill.

I tend to run my war's fairly aggressively and they still struggle against Spectral builds. Having your endurance cut down 35% in the first round really limits the ability of a war glad to leverage his endurance in his fight strategy. War's take a little longer to get going and take an opponent down (by attacking health) - add in that damage mitigation that the shadows have and they are incredibly difficult to take down. I can appreciate that there are various rock-paper-scissor elements at play in the game, but at this point war's seem to be very limited on options against functioning Spectral builds.

I mentioned previously that I think a worthwhile option to look at would be if the effectiveness of Spectral Touch was somehow linked in to the length of the battle (such as maybe a certain percent times the round number). That would give the slower builds some time to get going, but still penalise the really, really slow builds that just sit around. At the same time though, I have seen Spectral Touch hit and do next to nothing, but whether that's from being defensive at the right time, a natural chance to fail in the skill, or a low training level in it, I can't say.

Nate - if you're around, would you mind sharing your thoughts on the balancing? I'm curious how a Spectral build fares against, say, defensive war, offensive war (maybe faster dual wield and a slower 2H or sword-n-board), the rage builds, the theatrics builds...

[Nate]

Nate - if you're around, would you mind sharing your thoughts on the balancing? I'm curious how a Spectral build fares against, say, defensive war, offensive war (maybe faster dual wield and a slower 2H or sword-n-board), the rage builds, the theatrics builds...

Many new and interesting possibilities in the pits with a lot of different situations to think about and respond to. An exotic animal has been introduced into the environment and it will take some time for the other species to adapt and adapt they will. Some have already started.

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[Dainoji]

Spectral Touch isn't much different than rampage and rampage has been in the game for a long time without being OP. Both work on a percent basis, both can be blocked, and both have cool downs to prevent them from being OP. Usually 2 successful rampages will take a glad out, for spectral touch it takes 3. Chances are good a defensive glad will block one or more of those attacks and stop the drain just like you'll see a tanking war reduce a rampage down to 1 damage sometimes. Most managers haven't built their glads and strategies to handle stamina drain yet. I know I'm already paying more attention to stamina in anticipation of the shadow tidal wave.

[Cynaidh]

Ya i agree Dainoji, its a very similar skill to Rampage.

My final opinion on the Shadow class is they are very very fun, i think they are fairly balanced since speed based glads can take them out fairly easy, while they have the upper hand vs tanks and slow swinging glads.

But unfortunately i think i am going back to the shadows myself, this 50-55 grind has totally ruined this game for me, Zynaidh who hit 50 over two months ago is still not even halfway threw 53, i just don't have the patience for this slow level of advancement with basically nothing to do with your glads for 4-5 months while you go from 50 to 55 (really what is there to do tavern missions? The Gauntlet and Conquests make no sense due to you just going to eventually out level the gear you'd get if you do them before 55, arena fights aren't fun as your matched up again level 55 glads in level 54+ gear), it seems crazy to me its possible to hit 50 in 3-4 weeks and then your going to spend 5 months to get 5 more levels. The thought of the next class doesn't even interest me cause it will again be 6 months to get one to 55 to see how they really compare with the established glads. Re-rolling glads is now out too due to the same 6 months to get fully leveled again, re-rolling glads was one of the things i enjoyed the most about Pit of War, but soul bound gear put a nail in the coffin of doing that and the 50-55 grind is the hammer that nailed that coffin shut.

I for one miss the days of Primus where we would see a new gladiator idea made and then come up and completely change the meta in a matter of weeks (Bloody Lady was a great example of this), it kept the game fresh and exciting, now it just seems stale. Even with a new class coming out and it will take HALF A YEAR before we can see how they will really do against the top glads..... odds are the next class coming out will not even contend in blood gods till 2016, if they are released in the next month or two. I just don't understand how this design is "fun".

[Stormcloak]

The past two weeks, it's been better with spectral touch - I'm seeing the armour actually stop some of them from landing now, so it seems a lot more reasonable.
Cyn - I'm sorry to hear that you're taking a break. Hopefully we'll see you back here soon, refreshed and ready to kick some butt. Have fun!

[Nate]

Thanks for the feedback Cyn. As always, glad to have you back for a spell and all the best to you and yours if you do decide to slip back into the shadows! There is a planned update in the near future that will enable Pit Masters to boost their Blood Gods' XP faster than is currently available for those who enjoy the destination more than the journey. Each player has their own level of happiness when it comes to progression speed, some like to take it slow and some like to race to the end. Perhaps you'll enjoy the new boosts when they are introduced. In case you aren't already aware of it, simply logging in each day awards your Blood Gods with a 2x XP boost in addition to any stable memberships you may already be using.

Good luck outside the Pit!

-Nate-

[Cynaidh]

Thanks for the feedback Cyn. As always, glad to have you back for a spell and all the best to you and yours if you do decide to slip back into the shadows! There is a planned update in the near future that will enable Pit Masters to boost their Blood Gods' XP faster than is currently available for those who enjoy the destination more than the journey. Each player has their own level of happiness when it comes to progression speed, some like to take it slow and some like to race to the end. Perhaps you'll enjoy the new boosts when they are introduced. In case you aren't already aware of it, simply logging in each day awards your Blood Gods with a 2x XP boost in addition to any stable memberships you may already be using.

Good luck outside the Pit!

-Nate-

Yup i was aware of the boost, i have tried to log in every day (i know i've missed some especially this past week as i have just lost interest) but really that just shows that there is an issue, the thing you can do to make it be a 5 month level instead of a 10 month level is "log in every day". I don't know, maybe the rest of the players like the slow grind, i honestly had not even thought about how it must be if you don't have all of the stable buffs going, as i normally play with all of them on, so without them is it a year to go from 50 to 55?

As for paying for a boost, i'd probably do it if brought the 51-55 leveling back in line with the leveling from the first 50 levels of the game. Right now its just too depressing watching that exp bar slowly move from 52 to 53. It's just not fun. What's even more amazing to me is I started logging in again what back on Oct 21st when you suggested i log even to keep my team active so they would level up and my existing glads still haven't hit 55.

[Adoede]

I certainly understand what Cynaidh is saying...and let's be honest, the reduced activity in the forums lately indicates he's not the only one less engaged these days.

The slower pace doesn't bother me so much because I have so many guys in blood gods to keep me entertained while my newbies are developing. But I can see how a team with no maxed glads would feel like an awfully slow grind. If Nate wants to speed leveling up, that's fine by me. Speeding up gearing too would be "A-okay" with me as well. And while we're at it, let me just chime in that it would be nice if the incentives for performing well in the seasons were a bit more "incentivizing". I, for one, think the prizes for the blood games are waaay better than the prizes for seasons. Maybe merge the two together? So a top-1% win in seasons counts as a 1st place finish towards the blood games achievements? Etc... As it is now, once you've got the extra HOL prize, there's nothing to shoot for in seasons anymore...other than pride for a day before the next season starts.

As for the gear issue - Nate has said before that lvl 55 gear might not always be the best for your build design. Something I've been doing casually is keeping track of armor pieces with the boosts I like from each different level of gear (I refresh blacksmith everyday to look through the inventory in case anything catches my eye - so I can know to look for it at the end of the season). And let me say that, for example, if I wanted to maximize stamina and block on my build - some of the best gear for that is lvl 52 and some others are lvl 53 or 54. Maybe one piece is lvl 55. So if you plan your gear purchases well, you should be gearing up well through levels 52-55.

Cynaidh, if helping you gear up even while you're in the 50-55 level grind will help keep you in the game, PM me about what you are trying to accomplish with your gear design and I'll see if I happen to have any of those pieces on my "wishlist" to share with you.

[Team Kaos]

I understand the lulls of going from 50-55, but Zynaith also, rocketed up the ranks in a pretty absurd fashion. As of today there are only 3 Shadows in Primus one of them being another of Cyn's. The majority of Shadows that started up around the same time are working through Maximus still. I know everyone wants to level up as fast as they can, but in my mind whats the fun of any game if i can blast my way all the way to 55 in just a few weeks especially in a game like this.
It would cheapen the upper brackets of Primus and Blood Gods and especially the Blood Games in those brackets. It's supposed to be hard to attain those brackets not to just be able to run full throttle and go from 1 to 55 in a month. If that was the deal then Blood Gods and HOL would be meaningless because everyone would do it and do it very often.

Thats my 2 cents.

[Cynaidh]

I agree with what your saying Kaos, i think a balance is important. It seems like we have seem both ends of the spectrum with leveling speed in the pits. At one point you could make a max level glad in a couple of hours (back when extra fights where just 2 trophies each and did not increment up in price, I don't think you where active when that was going on) and there would be brand new max level glads each day it seemed for awhile, that was crazy looking back on it now, but now it takes over half a year to make a max level glad which seems equally crazy. Both to me are extremes and I would rather see something in the middle, around 2 months would be where i would like to see be the duration of the 1-55 leveling grind.

[Ogornomus]

Shouldn't the leveling speed discussion have it's own thread?
My toughts though: I quit this game two times because I felt it was too slow. Got frustrated leveling up skills to 10.
I'm back again and now I got used to the pace of the game. I learned not to think too far ahead (like moths ahead).
If you set samll goals like "I want to get this skill to 10", the speed of progressin is bearable. At least that is how I deal with it.


Back on topic though.
I started to make progress beating the shadows. Even the ones with Spectral Touch.
I don't know what their exact skill are, but in attack power department they look more like theathrics rather then rages, makes the easiert to parry.
Once my hybrids train Blood Drunk they are prety good at ignoring their defences (Faint also helps). And I was surprised to see armor actualy being able to deflect/absorb Spectral Touch. I tought it is spectral and thus goes through it.
I yet to train Armoured Fortress on my defence glad. I don't kow how much stamina does it shave off, but usualy I can beat a shadow in stamina if he misses one Spectral Touch (the second one usualy comes when we both are very low and that is how my glad loses). Accelerating their stamina loss can help. They can't tank, so they have to attack now and then, right?

But, there are two more specialisations to come out and so hybrids will be a thing. Looking forward to a new adaptation cycle.