New Tier 6 War Skill

[Nate]

One of the great things about playing a game developed by Indie developers is having direct access to the team. In Pit of War's case, that is me. :) As players of PoW you have always helped shape some aspects of the game because I actually do listen to feedback. :cool:

http://hotmeme.net/media/i/7/5/uQq-i-am-a-generous-god-because.jpg (http://hotmeme.net/post/uQq/i-am-a-generous-god-because/)

and unlike cruel Xerxes who demands you kneel, I require only that you vote and and offer up an intelligent argument supporting your opinion. ;)

Currently the plan is to offer War gladiators a skill that helps them mitigate the negative affects of fighting on the ground. Some have asked that they are instead offered an offensive skill. What would you like to see?

If this is a topic that is of interest to you please take the time to vote on it AND write why you are voting that way. Thanks!

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[oedi]

To me this sounds like the perfect offensive skill for War glads, as I imagine this skill will allow skills to trigger while on the ground. I think this skill might even revive the War cry skill. Im really looking forward to playing around with this skill :)
2 times 2 thumbs up, makes 4 for gore.

[Alba Kebab]

I would like to complain that some specific players complain way too damn much, and is effectively trying to take the game hostage to their own whims with their incessant whining in Nate's ear all the time.
I would like to vote for a 3rd option that Nate needs to tell some chronic whiners to just shut up for once, the game isn't made for just one or two people.

I'd rather see the skill come out first and reserve judgement later.

[Nate]

Verinor, you need to explain and give reasons on why you voted the way you did.

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[Nate]

I would like to complain that some specific players complain way too damn much, and is effectively trying to take the game hostage to their own whims with their incessant whining in Nate's ear all the time.
I would like to vote for a 3rd option that Nate needs to tell some chronic whiners to just shut up for once, the game isn't made for just one or two people.

I'd rather see the skill come out first and reserve judgement later.

I added a third option "Other" for you. You may want to explicitly vote in your post as well even though you allude to one over the other.

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[Kreegan]

I would like to complain that some specific players complain way too damn much, and is effectively trying to take the game hostage to their own whims with their incessant whining in Nate's ear all the time.
I would like to vote for a 3rd option that Nate needs to tell some chronic whiners to just shut up for once, the game isn't made for just one or two people.
You mean me, I guess? Why don't you use names? Man up!

@Nate, I appreciate the poll, really, but it was never my intention to initiate something like this. I hope this is not because of me (and I suppose it is not because you certainly doesn't look like someone without an independent mind). This is your game, do what you want with it. I may like it or not, I'll probably tell either way (I don't hold my opinion, whoever doesn't like this is welcome to cry me a river) but that's where the story ends. If I convince you to change something - great! If I can't - no problem. Period.

[Nate]

In an earlier post I said I would try and give more notice to changes to the game and in addition I'd also like to get a better feel from the player base as to what they would like to see. To that end a poll on this topic seemed a good start. While it is true it is my game and there will be decisions made that some may not enjoy, I'd like to make the game a community endeavor when possible. Indie devs can't compete with the AAA studios on budget, graphics, marketing, glitz and glamour but we can stand head and shoulders above them when in comes to community, accessibility and customer support. That's what this is about. :)

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[Thor]

I would really like an offensive oriented skill. I do like offensive war glads and this could help some, if you don't want to get Armoured fortress.

[Alba Kebab]

I added a third option "Other" for you. You may want to explicitly vote in your post as well even though you allude to one over the other.

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-
A question,

Is down and dangerous supposed to be a variety type skill that can be used as an 'alternative style' to add an extra dimension to the way wars fight, like what Oedi is saying? or is it just a souped up defense skill to help cover War's weakness when sent to the ground?
If it is the former I'd prefer for down and dangerous to stay. If it is the latter than I'd rather war be given an offensive skill, just so the war class can have a wider variety of options and builds available instead of just defaulting to one build.
More variety is what I would like to see, and I would go with whichever of the two options(down and dangerous or some offensive skill) gives that.

[Avengelyn]

From my standpoint, as soon as the new skills were announced i just assumed there would be one offensive and one defensive choice for each class.

I was astonished when that turned out not to be the case for the war tree, especially when that tree lacks offense so badly already. To me the ground skill is akin to giving rage another offense skill choice at tier 6.

Avengelyn, Manager of Lethal Formula

[Nate]

Is down and dangerous supposed to be a variety type skill that can be used as an 'alternative style' to add an extra dimension to the way wars fight, like what Oedi is saying?


Oedi is on the right track. I'm not sure what you mean by 'alternative style' though. Down And Dangerous helps alleviate many of the negative affects of being on the ground which in essence makes it a defensive and offensive skill. The fact that is helps a war glad get back up doesn't negate the skill as they'll still find themselves on the ground until they are able to stand back up. I'll look at making the description more clear.

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[weaw]

Currently the plan is to offer War gladiators a skill that helps them mitigate the negative affects of fighting on the ground. I have no clear understanding for many aspects of POW yet (The mechanics of skills and strategies are simple for using, but POW is really complex game for me, so it's a great game). But as i can see right now, Down And Dangerous skill might be useful for both offensive and defensive styles. That skill might give us some flexibility. While an abstract "offensive skill" might give only abstract offensive advantages. :)
So, that's my vote.

[Apoca1ypse]

Voting for down and dangerous because I'd like to see it in action before passing judgement. If it allows activated skills to trigger when on the ground, I think that'd brilliant (even if it makes for weird flavour with DFA :P ) but whatever else Nate has planned for it could be really neat too :) Regardless, it seems like it could be a nice skill that can be used for offense AND defense, depending on how you structure the rest of your skills. I like that.

Even if it ends up being a more defensive skill, that's still cool IMO. If people want proper offensive Wars, they can always dabble into the rage tree.


Also, if Down and Dangerous becomes some sort of offensive skill, I dont ever want to hear people piss and moan that "ermagerd, my war is always prone, which means auto lose, so fix prone"

[crow]

I voted for the down and dangerous. My thought on this is.... Folks are making IMO a rash judgement when they don't know how this will work. I for one will go with someone who has thought this through and tested it to see if it benefits the players. This does give an element of great benefit to the biggest weakness of the war glads which is being grounded.
I do believe that the offensive war is the weakest high end build in the game right now. Not enough ump to get through the defensive wars, and sitting ducks against the speed theatrics and all rages.

[Sotc]

Haven't voted, looking for some answers about the skill.

Down And Dangerous - As a master of the War specialty, your gladiator has learned most fights will go to the ground. While others struggle to fight while prone, your gladiator welcomes it. Knowing how to angle and position themselves boosts the effectiveness of their armour and defense allowing them to actively attack when they want. Quickly getting back up to their feet is another bonus awarded to your gladiator.

Knowing how to angle and position themselves boosts the effectiveness of their armour and defense allowing them to actively attack when they want.
Does this apply only to the glad while prone or while standing as well?

[Dainoji]

I'll echo Apoc's comment. The skill looks good to me. War glads who want more firepower can dump points into the Rage tree, that's why we have the ability to create hybrid builds anyway.

[Adoede]

I'm voting for Down and Dangerous...with some suggestions. Down and Dangerous seems to me to have good potential for an offensive war build. If it added a small boost to attack power and damage that might be even better (otherwise full war tier glads just don't have the offense to punch through defensive glads defenses.)

I do wonder about the "activated" tier 6 skills - Entangle and Down & Dirty - that only trigger on special attacks or under special circumstances. Seems a big disadvantage to the "always on" tier 6 skills. I imagine Nate has buffed them accordingly so they are competitive.

[Adoede]

Actually, what if we incorporated down and dangerous into a broader offensive tier 6 skill? One that really shifts the war into an offensive glad. For example: Bonuses to attack power and damage and initiative that are on passively. The added bonus at rank 10 is that if the glad gets knocked down, they fight just as effectively as if standing up.

[Nate]

Thanks for all the participation everyone, I appreciate it! It's always awesome to see the players get involved! Looks like given the current description things are split almost down the middle. Given those results we'll move forward as planned and I think those wanting a different offensive minded skill will find this helps the offense of a war gladiator indirectly as well. I have a fight simulator that can run thousands of fights in seconds and I use it to test how skills fair and I'm happy with the results returned and think many of you will be as well.

I've re-wrote the description for Down & Dangerous to better reflect its true ability which will hopefully convey its meaning more accurately, and to clear up any questions, this skill only works when the gladiator is prone:

Down And Dangerous - As a master of the War specialty, your gladiator has learned most fights will go to the ground. While others struggle to fight when prone, your gladiator welcomes it and doesn't suffer the same penalties. Knowing how to move, angle and position themselves while down keeps their offense deadly, their defense solid and helps them to seize opportunities to stand up more easily.

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[Alba Kebab]

I guess what I was asking as a 'fighting style' is whether it is a skill that allows you to go to ground out of your own choice, you know, like guys taking a dive on purpose in soccer.
My wars for example almost never gets sent to the ground(less than 1 in 10 fights), so if I can't 'choose' to go to ground out of my own choice, this skill will be a complete waste for my guys if I picked it.

If it can only be used when down and cannot be actively triggered by yourself to dive to ground, as it seems from the description, then I doubt there are enough war managers out there who can trip over often enough to make good use of this skill. Heavily encumbered tanks with shields would probably be the only group that can use it regularly enough, and that's a rather small group to justify a tier 6 skill for.

If my take above is correct, then I'd rather have a different offence skill.

[Apoca1ypse]

Oh no! you wont always be able to make use of the skill. shock and horror. Its not like people get to make use of surprise ending every fight either, but it's an accepted part of the skill.

It may not get used all the time, but in those fights where its relevant, you'll thank yourself for having it. It also frees up a strategy line because you probably wont need one dedicated to getting back up from being prone.

The skill would also mean that you dont have to use dunder if youre terrified about going prone, because falling over isnt the end of the world.

[Sotc]

I'm ok with proceeding with Down and Dangerous, but I'd just like to throw out a skill idea: maybe we should have a offensive version of never say die. The closer your war gets to losing whether by hp or endurance, he gets a bonus to damage. Kind of a "pulling victory from the jaws of defeat" type flavor similar to NSD or grim determination.

[Alba Kebab]

Oh no! you wont always be able to make use of the skill. shock and horror. Its not like people get to make use of surprise ending every fight either, but it's an accepted part of the skill.

It may not get used all the time, but in those fights where its relevant, you'll thank yourself for having it. It also frees up a strategy line because you probably wont need one dedicated to getting back up from being prone.

The skill would also mean that you dont have to use dunder if youre terrified about going prone, because falling over isnt the end of the world.

surpise ending isn't a top tier skill, and all other tier 6 skills are obviously going to get used every fight, so it's a different bar for expectations here.

I'm still ok to see and test it first, we can always try it first and then come back and discuss more.

...or maybe entangle will make wars fall over more? maybe that's the plan???

[Kreegan]

It may not get used all the time, but in those fights where its relevant, you'll thank yourself for having it. It also frees up a strategy line because you probably wont need one dedicated to getting back up from being prone.Not necessarily, the skill description implies that your gladiator might get increased defense and possibly deflections (kind of like Armoured Fortress which triggers when he gets prone) while on the ground so you may want to try some defensive strategy with this. At the moment trying to defend when prone is an auto-loss.

Let's see what it does. I'm not a fan of skills which trigger following some semi-random event (hard to plan consistent strategies around them) and I still don't think that this is the way to cure the knockdown plague but it might be worth it. It will become clear in a few months, that's for sure.

[verinor]

Ah, sorry.
Well i feel like armored fortress is superior to that new one so i chose second option.
Im more concerned about mixing skill trees which is impossible when you need 90 in same tree to get the last skill in it. I love mixing different builds and i wonder why not go for more customization, like lessen the requirement to 80 so you could take at least one skill from different tree, or 70 so you can take 2 skills, shame we cant do stuff more freely xD

[ahroun]

i think its a bit late, but i dont like the new pasive. some fights never bring the glad to the ground and with this pasive you fight better in ground than without it (its a good idea) but also you can get up earlier so the passive is not efective all the fight. Rage and theatrics are passives too but they work all the fight. I think its a good passive but not for the last war tier. maybe a passive that reduce the crits effects should be great.
im a bit newbee but that is my impresion
good bye! :D

[Stormcloak]

A bit late to this, but I like Sotc's suggestion about offensive capabilities increasing as you get worn down.

I would also be interested in seeing a skill that uses shields more offensively, which in my opinion would really distinguish the war. Maybe something where it decreases your opponents initiative or defence and each shield could have a different aspect (buckler can do a shield stun, large shield can pin your opponent and increase critical chances, or something like that). This video below shows how the shield can actually be the weapon and how you use your sword to exploit the advantage...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dkhpqAGdZPc

I'm okay with Down and Dangerous though if Nate feels it's right:)