Skill: Knockout

[Hammock]

My gladiator:

Level 26 Theatrics
Called Shot - 5
Knockout - 6

Currently my Fight Strategy is Middle Activity Level, Middle Blood Lust, and only aiming for the Head. This has been my Strategy for over a week now.

So far I've not seen Knockout do anything at all.

I can see a few possibilities...
- I'm doing something wrong.
- I'm very unlucky.
- This High level skill is not working as intended.
- This High level skill is working as intended but in my opinion not worth the point or effort to take.

-Lance

[Warmonger]

I don't know. I haven't really seen any knockouts with my theatrics either with the same skills but it hasn't been long enough since he got them for me to judge well.

[Team Kaos]

Knockout does work but it is not as potent as we would like it to be. If your comparing it skills like barreling attack, signature move or others on the same level like rampage, or hamstring which are active and play large rolls in bouts nearly every fight...Knockout and Finishing Blow are nowhere in the same stratosphere when it comes to being on the same roll percentage as he others.

I do see more knockouts from my top guys and kills but they are not even close in matching skill to skill effectiveness as to what a rage and war get from Last Stand or War Cry from what see in matches.
As I have always said...the Theatric guys get shafted hard.

[oedi]

in my opinion those 2 skills together with finishing blow are either broken or just very poor. none of my theatrics warriors have ever won a fight with any of those skills as far as i can tell.

[crow]

A couple of my theatrics boys have just recently unlocked this skill (knockout) and I have already seen it pay dividends. I have mainly seen it in the tavern fights, but it did save one of my boys butts in the arena this morning.
Remember this skill ends a fight, so there is no way the game is going use this at a high percentage of the time. Also your guy not only has to score a hit to the head, but it has to be a critical hit also. This skill to me just improves the chances of landing the knockout blow. It might not happen all the time but it is nice to know your boy is out there with it in his back pocket ready to use!!

[Nate]

As Crow has pointed out, some of the skills are game changers and can not and will never go off with a large frequency. This is by design. When balancing the skills hundreds of thousands of fight simulation are run to dial in the desired frequency. So for example (and this is only an example) let's say at level 5 Finishing Blow is meant to award a 10% increase in kills, after all the sims are run that gladiator will have 10% more kills on average at the end of his career than a gladiator without that skill. Same is true for knockout and any other game changer type skills. These numbers can then be further modified by your gladiator's attributes, gear, luck, etc.

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-

[Hammock]

Thanks for all the replies everyone..

And I understand the the fact that this skill can't go off every fight, since it is a game ender.. but I will say that it doesn't go off enough to be worth the points...
Maybe if it did more... Like it has a better chance to stun on a head shot, and also added to the chance to knock out....

I think I'm going to file this skill under:
"- This High level skill is working as intended but in my opinion not worth the point or effort to take."

Thanks,
-Lance

[Jaradakar]

Thanks for all the replies everyone..

And I understand the the fact that this skill can't go off every fight, since it is a game ender.. but I will say that it doesn't go off enough to be worth the points...
Maybe if it did more... Like it has a better chance to stun on a head shot, and also added to the chance to knock out....

I think I'm going to file this skill under:
"- This High level skill is working as intended but in my opinion not worth the point or effort to take."

Thanks,
-Lance

I've got the same skills as your gladiator (5 in called shot and 6 in Knock out). For ~2 weeks now I've been mostly aiming at the head and have not seen 1 knock out result. It seems like the base percentage chance to have this happen is like 1% and then the skill modifies that to be slightly higher.

Overall for how high of tier skill it is, I have to agree it does not seem to be worth putting points in. IMO it should do more, increase chance to stun with head hits is a good idea (and I was thinking the exact same thing).

That or the skill should be redesigned as I personally think it's okay to have the rare instance of a game changer in the game, it keeps things exciting and is something to talk about when it happens. But linking a high level tier skill to barely modify it puts design in a hard place. Make it actually worth while (game changer) means it's too good. Making it too small (as I believe it currently is) makes it not worth investing points in it.

I'd rather the skill be changed to something else in that case.

[Hammock]

Minor Update:

So ~20-30 fights of always aiming for the head with a knockout of 6... I'm happy to report that this morning I did finally score a knockout.

But yea, I'm still thinking it needs something else to make this skill worth the points and strategy line changes...

-L

[Team Kaos]

some of the skills are game changers and can not and will never go off with a large frequency. This is by design.

That's understandable, but getting stunned can be a match ender many times also especially vs a singled handed weapon. Single handed weapons dish out so much damge that at times all it takes is 2 or 3 hits to end a match anyway.
Even getting stunned early vs a fast weapon is pretty much a lose.

Signature Move at times rolls out a stun effect that lasts 2 rounds. I don't think anyone can survive being stunned 2 rounds vs any opponent.

I think what is happening is, those that have theatric fighters are feeling the "Anger Rising" inside as I did (although mine was directed at the obscene Total Parry tactic). When fighting Rage fighters now, Rage fighters will get the first swing in 99.9% of the time and then roll off Barreling Attacks, Sunder, Rampage and higher up the Shock and Awe Skills while laying down massive blasts due to the other Rage skills, while a theatric fighter is trying to rope-a-dope and get off as many bee stings as possible before getting laid out with a ball and chain while crossing their fingers that a knockout appears. And if they do survive a pair of 300+ hits they are disappointed to see that their 6 skill points in finishing move didn't really finish the monster off.

[Dainoji]

That's understandable, but getting stunned can be a match ender

I've found Iron Jaw to be a blessing in this regard and I see so few people outside of theatrics train in it and I'd wager many theatrics managers wouldn't train in it either if they didn't have to in order to unlock the next tier. Grim determination is another great one that is often overlooked. I think many are so focused on attack and defense they forget there are many other factors that go into winning. If you are running a rage gladiator you might be able to get away with not training in some of these types of skills since you are banking on destroying your opponent before they get a chance to hit you, but if you are war or theatrics, I'd say they are almost a must have.

[Deus]

I finaly starts to get some points into knock out (5 - called shot 7) and starts working just fine fore me - lovely skillcombo (at least with a dual-weapon-wield counterstriker)

[Dehodem]

Yea,

Interesting build indeed

What is the ratio of the trigger ?

1 about how many fight for you?

[Deus]

I havent counted but I would I have seen between 0 - 3 stuns in a fight with 1-2 being more comon but with my glads blind i tend to be able to blind/stun the enemy quite a bit and thats a neat combination.

Edit: Now I counted possible stuns since actual stuns depends on the oponents skills as well...

[Dehodem]

... but i was taking about knock down man?

how much it trigger?

[TwoDie]

Knockout does work but it is not as potent as we would like it to be. If your comparing it skills like barreling attack, signature move or others on the same level like rampage, or hamstring which are active and play large rolls in bouts nearly every fight...Knockout and Finishing Blow are nowhere in the same stratosphere when it comes to being on the same roll percentage as he others.

I do see more knockouts from my top guys and kills but they are not even close in matching skill to skill effectiveness as to what a rage and war get from Last Stand or War Cry from what see in matches.
As I have always said...the Theatric guys get shafted hard.

Good sir. YOU DO KNOW that knockout is insta win right ? It's extreme low roll rate is exactly like it should be. To be honest I'd like to see it removed in all and replaced because even at 1%(i thinks it's actually .1%) chance thats a HUGE chance if you have high enough agility. You could be getting DESTROYED by another glad and randomly by luck knock them out. How is that far at ALL to the other glad. Kinda of (no offence here couldn't conjure another word) gay way to win. Kinda be mad if your glad was winning 99% of the fight only to get Ko'd ..... But if you removed Knockout Theatrics would need some minor buffing and a decent replacement. Theatrics doesn't get shafted it's pretty on par to all. My point here is IF IT WAS "more potent" it'd would be overpowered found out quickly and overused as soon as they people found out.

[Arkham]

Its a gimmick. Theatrics have a meh tree. Let them have their gimmick.

[Dainoji]

Knockout doesn't matter, it happens sometimes, so what. I've seen MMA and boxing matches end because a guy got caught. It happens and not frequently. I'd say it happens just enough. I don't subscribe to the belief that Theatrics has a "meh tree" but that's a discussion for another thread. :)

[TwoDie]

Knockout doesn't matter, it happens sometimes, so what. I've seen MMA and boxing matches end because a guy got caught. It happens and not frequently. I'd say it happens just enough. I don't subscribe to the belief that Theatrics has a "meh tree" but that's a discussion for another thread. :)

Ok so your saying the tiny axes and maces that the theatrics glad have a better chance of KO then a two handed maul by a rage glad. I think it should be implement in the game as a stat or chance when you land a hit in the head instead of skill. If it doesnt happen any more then 1% of the time (per hit) then why should it be in game at all. It's 100% luck if its hit then ? IDk the exact % or roll that it hits but if its 1% then......shouldnt i be replaced by something better ? I really wanna see it implimented across all trees or across the game in all without having a skill in general if i bash u in the head with a giant maul and not knock you out ima be running for the hills. Im not saying give a rage glad a buff but im saying give theatrics a buff and implement KO in all specialties

[Dainoji]

I certainly enjoy the enthusiasm of new players, however before you make assumptions be sure to have the facts. Any gladiator can knockout his opponent with a hit to the head not just Theatrics gladiators. The knockout skill just improves this chance. The longer you play the more you'll see it. I don't know what the actual percentages are and I don't think we ever will. This isn't a 100% transparent kind of game and Nate has said so as much. Part of the skill of this game is figuring it out and then being able to use the knowledge you've learned to your advantage. Thus far everything I've discovered has been pretty logical, so it doesn't take any great leaps of faith to figure out the lion's share of how things work.

In regards to the "tiny axes and maces" knocking guys out...absolutely. Ever been punched in jaw and knocked out? fist = tiny mace. ;) A 2h maul in real life would kill a man if struck in the head full force by a 6' 8" 300 pound trained killer. At the end of the day this is a game and a pretty well balanced one at that. The top 10 in the rankings sports 4 theatrics, 3 war and 3 rage gladiators and has for some time with the extra slot being any one of the three specialties.

[Team Kaos]

Ok so your saying the tiny axes and maces that the theatrics glad have a better chance of KO then a two handed maul by a rage glad. I think it should be implement in the game as a stat or chance when you land a hit in the head instead of skill. If it doesnt happen any more then 1% of the time (per hit) then why should it be in game at all. It's 100% luck if its hit then ? IDk the exact % or roll that it hits but if its 1% then......shouldnt i be replaced by something better ? I really wanna see it implimented across all trees or across the game in all without having a skill in general if i bash u in the head with a giant maul and not knock you out ima be running for the hills. Im not saying give a rage glad a buff but im saying give theatrics a buff and implement KO in all specialties

Your mixing real life with the game's skill tree. Just as a Theatrics has an improved "chance" to knockout an opponent, a Rage receives the ability EVERY fight to Rampage ridiculous attack power or actually gain health and endurance as well as strength when he is nearly dead and exhausted if such skill are trained. Just as a War can somehow be the only gladiator to have the ability to fit into heavy armor, a War can also have the skill to scream so loud he actually intimidates his opponent...I'd like to see how that works out in real life..but the point is, each type of gladiator has skills within their tree to improve chances to win.
Ever notice a Rage no matter how big and slow his weapon is will almost always get the first swing in..unless the opponent is well above in agility AND using a faster weapon. Doesn't seem all to possible but it's how the game is designed.
A Rage has many of its own benefits as do the other styles, it is even possible and in some cases highly recommended to train in the other skill trees.

But please don't bring real world physics and scenario into a game that is based on fantasy.....

[Juzzo]

Today...Prey vs. Solstice.

First round (first hit) KO.

Prey wins...heh!

[Team Kaos]

Today...Prey vs. Solstice.

First round (first hit) KO.

Prey wins...heh!

Hey Caine...When did you start the fan club up? Or you have a stalker........

[CaineDeSoulis]

bwahahaha, fully expected a loss here turns out i got lucky.

[Juzzo]

Its Solstice that is on my watch list.

But admittedly....After seeing a few of your posts around, I knew my above post would get a rise outta ya ;)

[Arkham]

A fine title. 'The Undisputed Pit Lord Champion' indeed.

[Team Kaos]

After a rash of knockouts last week from Solstice, Power Slave, Eruption, Anger Rising, Prey and a few others....they seem to have vanished as fast as they appeared. Must have been something in the water causing all those knockouts.....guess they switched back to the fresh well water instead of the piped in water.

[Dainoji]

Such is the way of dice rolls and probability. You'll get feasts and famines. Nothing unusual really.

[Team Kaos]

A bit unusual i'd say..not like it was the same gladiator getting them..it was a # of different glads knocking opponents out...to come and go like that is a bit weird

[oedi]

Im gonna do a quiz to celebrate oedi`s brand new skill rank 10 in KO, I went through his last 50 wins, to see how many wins he actually got with KO. In all these wins he had a 7 or better skill rank. It was a period of 98 fights, and 3 of the wins ended with a kill. He also got a rank 7 in called shot, which has been constant, and he of course aim for the head.
So how many KO did he get in those remaining 47 wins? anyone dare come with a calculated guess?
Ill post the answer tomorrow around the same time.

[Apoca1ypse]

i'll guess 5


also, i've noticed some more KO wins with my glads as of late. rather surprised actually....

[Cynaidh]

It does seem to be a nice skill i was just reading threw some of the fights this morning and saw this one, Solstice was down to 595 life too and Ormgar had 1281 when the hit happened.

SOLSTICE springs hastily around ORMGAR.
SOLSTICE tries to strike ORMGAR with his HEROIC CUTTER.
Shot knocks ORMGAR's head back by pushing on the inside of his skull! (+84 Damage)
SOLSTICE hits the sweet spot on ORMGAR's head and drops him! (-Knockout-)

[oedi]

last 50 wins gave oedi 8 KO wins. Which i guess i an ok frequency, but when i analyze the wins only 1 was a true win. 4 of the wins i had 450 or more hp when i got the KO, and i did not fight a 2h rager that couldve 1 hit me at the point. 2 of the KO was in the start of the fight, and could of course ended either way. 1 was a late fight KO with even hp, and couldve ended either way. 1 KO was me winning with no other possibilities of gaining a win.
so without KO my w/l wouldve been like 48-50-3 instead of 50-48-3 so in my mind KO is not a very crucial skill to train.

[Team Kaos]

KO is a very sub par skill. Every gladiator has the ability to KO and does once in a while. For 10 skill points into a skill it should have a better frequency of hitting. And I know all the Rage and War guys are gonna say that it should be a less frequent hit since its is a match winner but so is a 500 or 600 plus shot. 2 of those and its pretty much over. While the Theatrics is running around landing 20 flesh wounds.

[TwoDie]

-Odei -

Did you happen to use blades like most other people ? Most think KO is a "ok" skill but have you tryed maxing it out at 10 with axes/clubs mastery (bash). Most people use swords which give a little to nothing extra to the KO chance therefor when your not using it to its fullest it IS a sub par skill. If you combine it with bash weapons and a decent amount in KO. I belive it would be pretty on par with even that of last stand. BUT every1 knows Gladuis's have most damage per round and therefor most train in blades so the only reason KO is thought of as ok is bcoz no1 has tested its true potential. Basically when you pick your threatrics glad your choosing. GV & Blades or KO & Clubs ? Bcoz GV and bash is rather ineffctive and vice versa w/ko and blades

Edit: I do think there SHOULD be some specific types of resitance on armor. Like such as chainmail so you cant wound me 50 times and watch me bleed and so plate armor (for the head for sure) so you cant constant KO (assuming of course that bash and ko would work as well as GV and Blades) this would go for only meduim/heavy.......

[Prinny]

I can;t help but lol about some of the comments...
How about this: Called Shot(Aim for head) + Knuckles/Claws + Bash + KO
Tadaa now you have a glad who relies on the KO skill with small chances of winning otherwise...

[Team Kaos]

Did you happen to use blades like most other people ? Most think KO is a "ok" skill but have you tryed maxing it out at 10 with axes/clubs mastery (bash). Most people use swords which give a little to nothing extra to the KO chance therefor when your not using it to its fullest it IS a sub par skill. If you combine it with bash weapons and a decent amount in KO. I belive it would be pretty on par with even that of last stand. BUT every1 knows Gladuis's have most damage per round and therefor most train in blades so the only reason KO is thought of as ok is bcoz no1 has tested its true potential. Basically when you pick your threatrics glad your choosing. GV & Blades or KO & Clubs ? Bcoz GV and bash is rather ineffctive and vice versa w/ko and blades

Not sure that is accurate...from what I have seen, smaller weapons like daggers, cestus, and short swords hit KO more often then the axe/mace weapons or even the larger bladed weapons. Plus, your chances of hitting a KO with a slower axe/mace is reduced even further since your gladiator is not swinging as often as a faster smaller weapon.


How about this: Called Shot(Aim for head) + Knuckles/Claws + Bash + KO
Tadaa now you have a glad who relies on the KO skill with small chances of winning otherwise..

If your gladiator can get past the chuckles by the crowd and bewilderment of the enforcer by bashing with those weapons perhaps he could land a KO.
But I'm gonna say he has an even lesser chance to KO when using a weapon the wrong way.

[Prinny]

Well atleast theyre more fit to bash than a dagger is xD
The fastest bash weapon would be a mace? it's got 1.5 speed compared to the speed of 3 with claw/knuckles thats a big difference xD
On the other hand Only Pringer X uses claws on my team and he does pretty ok with bashing xD

[CaineDeSoulis]

actually Azure is Knuckles/bash/ko 10/called shot 8. when i win its generally by ko and its about 30% and yes you can bash/slash or lunge with knuckles

[Prinny]

Lol u switched his weapons from high damage to little damage? :P
Pringer X doesn't have the KO skill yet so all of his wins are from beating his opponents to a pulp and most of his loses come from him running outof stamina just wondering though...how do you slash properly with those? XD

[CaineDeSoulis]

azure just got 2 ko's in a row.

[Prinny]

Well having a high called shot, fast weapons, and Ko should have some results xD

[Dainoji]

Knock out happens plenty having been on the receiving end more times than I care to remember!

[Dainoji]

just wondering though...how do you slash properly with those?

Judging by the look of the cestus with the long blades on it, it seems pretty obvious that you could slash with it like an animal might with its claws.

[oedi]

ok ill upgrade my view on the KO skill a little. Oedi just KOed Hunger and Plague in 2 straight fights.

[CaineDeSoulis]

well azure is still ko'ing at a very high percentage but oddly most of the time its against crow's guys lol.

[Prinny]

Ciane that's probably because crow just has to many glads in the top ranks so you fight them more often aswell :P

[Prinny]

Lol Jinrou just did 7 Knockouts ina row (outof 8 fights) so called shot + Knockout has been proven to be a great addition to defensive theatrics lol

[Kolodis]

Is there a resistance to the knockout condition? Also, I'm wondering if the tooltip will be changed or if it was deliberately meant to be ambiguous, when I first read it, I thought it meant higher percentages to stun, rather than another condition (didn't know there was a knockout condition untill my best gladiator got knocked out)

[Prinny]

The best (and probably only) way to deal with it would be to protect your head :P

[Kolodis]

The best (and probably only) way to deal with it would be to protect your head :P

XD i was hoping there was a stat or resistance i could build to combat it tho, like stun resistance.