SEASONS are BROKEN due to extra fights for Trophies ! PLEASE FIX IT, NATE !

[Narol]

All is in the title, and we all know it's true !

Allowing extra fights for trophies in Blood Gods bracket makes the game 300% Pay to Win and gives an unfair advantage to those who can spend shitload of trophies to get those extra fights, it's like a championship where some teams could buy the right to do more matches to mechanically score more points...

It's already too late for this season, but please fix that point for next season, Nate, if you don't want to kill your game completely !


'Nough Said, I spoke.

[Pit Lord]

This was clear from day 1 of Season 2. Any gladiator can take 1st place with enough extra fights.

[Narol]

The Thing That Should Not Be.

[Pit Lord]

You can create a gladiator today, join Blood Gods tomorrow and go to 10k rating for rank 1. Now the only reasonable aim can be win%. Rank seems pointless.

[Kreegan]

Like it was very different when Primus was the top bracket. You couldn't buy rusty-looking gear with some bracket-specific currency but everything else was the same.

[Prinny]

I lolled just a little bit to hard at the title, you've started this thread a little late Narol :p
Having that said, as Pit Lord pointed out this was clear from day 1 and it gave Nate some nice extra pocket money to continue on the game. If you want orange gear in this format you need to be prepared to spend some trophies.

To fix it either the format needs to be changed so that it becomes possible to reach them the normal way or boundaries should be added to the extra trophy fights a day in which a let's say 55-60% winrate in the Blood Gods can get you to the orange armour after say 6 weeks or so and weapons after 8 (That should keep your bgp max from overflowing whilst getting gear you want)

In addition, this didn't cost me that many bucks since both glads I did this with have a 70%ish winrate, Laharl was still more expensive reaching his very first build and boy he changed those alot during his career. The only gladiators allowed to do this are the ones with the winrate to deserve it and the trophies to back them up. Good luck pulling this off with a 50% winrate gladiator it will cost ya ALOT more :p

[Narol]

Kreegan : Wrong, it was very different then in Primus as the gladiators in Top 10 were not allowed to do extra-fights, so you had to be the best to get on the throne. And the fact that Legendary items have a rating requirement contrary to purple items is a major difference too.

Prinny : Yeah, I'm late to react but I was making a short break at the time when season 1 ended and it took me a little while to get back in the loop and evaluate the new system... As I said already, it's too late anyway to fix season 2 but I'm yelling now to make sure that things are fixed for season 3. I'm convinced that Nate can't be satisfied of the situation and won't let things as they are, that would just be killing the endgame definitively as the legendary items already earned will give an additional advantage to the leading glads who made the extra-fights.

My suggested plan to fix season 3 :

- Keep the current rating point system

- DO NOT ALLOW Extra-fights in Blood Gods Bracket (and also in Primus Top 10 so that glads really earn their godly status)

- Lower the rating point requirements of Legendary Items to respectively 1000/ 2000 instead of 4000/7000 currently, so that the top 10 Blood Gods can get them WITHOUT extra fights.

- Make season 3 items clearly better than season 2 one so that the advantage given by the already earned legendary items can be overcome on the long run.


That package of small changes easy to implement should do the trick, don't you think Nate ?

[Prinny]

My suggested plan to fix season 3 :

- Keep the current rating point system

Agreed I like it the way it is right now~


- DO NOT ALLOW Extra-fights in Blood Gods Bracket (and also in Primus Top 10 so that glads really earn their godly status)

Nate needs to earn some money aswell Narol, lay the extra fights to some boundaries would be a better idea in my opinion. Blood Gods isn't rly full right now I would like to see more gladiators get in rather than keeping them out by putting a limit on their fights in the top 10. Besides I don't think that many gladiators are doing extra trophy fights in the Primus top 10 right now anyway (A certain White Feather being an exeption ofcourse but that's getting it's ass kicked in Blood Gods :D)


- Lower the rating point requirements of Legendary Items to respectively 1000/ 2000 instead of 4000/7000 currently, so that the top 10 Blood Gods can get them WITHOUT extra fights.

Lowering the point requirement would be favourable, up to Nate how high/low he sets it :p


- Make season 3 items clearly better than season 2 one so that the advantage given by the already earned legendary items can be overcome on the long run.

Took some browsing but I found the quote I wanted~


I have kind of a long winded question on this one. I understand the purpose of this, the "carrot on the end of the stick" gets a little bigger each season so that people stay interested and have to continue fighting their glads to stay competitive. Makes total sense and we have seen this system in various games, since i now we are all familiar with World of Warcraft (well a lot of us are) and their Arena PVP system which is on Season 12 is similar in concept (at least it seems to be kinda ironic that they even have "Seasons") you get arena points per fight and you can use them to buy arena gear, you can buy the current seasons gear and the previous seasons gear, gear older then that is available to buy by non-arena people with regular pvp points (so it has the same trickle down effect, non-arena players can gear up in in season 10 gear before they even start doing arena pvp to be somewhat competitive when they first start the arena). Now this seems quite similar to what your going to do, and the only question I have about is about how do you think "Stat Inflation" will effect Pit of War and do you think it will be a long term issue. What i mean by "Stat Inflation" is that right now a good purple breast plate might have stats such as 12 str 7 agil 7 chi 7 pres, so for a BGP item to be "better" we would expect higher stats so maybe we will see a breast plate in season 1 with 15 str 10 agil 10 chi 10 pres, which is a nice increase and could be cause to buy this armor with your BGP points. But now lets fast forward to season 10, so now the stats on the breast plates have been increasing enough so that each season its a worthy expenditure of your BGP to buy the new version of the same item, so now the bp being sold has 55 str, 50 agil, 30 chi, 30 pres and 10% chance for ZeroEleven to jump out and start helping you in the fight each time your hit. This is "Stat Inflation" and it leads to where having 200 str right now is an amazing hard to reach goal, in the future in season 10 glads are running around with over 500 str. It also leads to the only important stats are the ones that gear can not increase which would be size and luck for our glads(currently anyways). I am just curious if you think this will become an issue in the pits.

The ones already holding the orange items have a better chance at gaining these in the future, increasing stats on gear each season could cause Zeroeleven to randomly jump out and help you in a fight while your glad has 500 Strength, good luck newly entered gladiators :p

[David]

Allow extra fights, Charybdis is still rising through the ranks. They just be scared of getting a trident to the face ... again (except for Ty Rex and Bloody Lady, those two are pretty tough)

[Kreegan]

Kreegan : Wrong, it was very different then in Primus as the gladiators in Top 10 were not allowed to do extra-fights, so you had to be the best to get on the throne. And the fact that Legendary items have a rating requirement contrary to purple items is a major difference too.I was mostly talking about the pay-to-win thing. Those who put real world cash in the development of their gladiators have always had the edge over the rest and this is very unlikely to change (the game's not really based on charity after all). Whether you will pay 100$ to keep your gladiator(s) within a striking distance of the throne or 1000$ to assure that he/they will stay on it makes little difference compared to those who can't afford to constantly pour cash into their fighters. Who's "best" has always been more about who spends more money and less about who manages his stable better.

[David]

Its a game where gladiators compete, extra fights are a bonus. If your glad is good enough, the challenge will only push them up, (without you having to pay for a fight yourself) like with Ty Rex. I wish more people would actually do it (although I am certainly not going to keep doing it to the extent that I am, that was just a one time thing) as it would mean more money for the developers, and more accurate ranks (and perhaps Conquests would have been done by now).

[Pit Lord]

I wrote thread in the suggestions part of the forum about the ranking system. The thread is "Seasons rankings". Nobody responded. That system uses season 1 rating system with some improvements. I also wrote my opinion about orange items somewhere on the forum. But at this point it doesn't matter since some gladiators already wear orange gear.

What I see now as the only acceptable variant of season rankings is RANKING BY WIN% and everything else stays the same. Point system stay the same. Extra fights stay unlimited. The rating graph can be renamed to something like "power progress" and its only purpose will be to show the gladiator progress toward the orange gear. But this progress won't help gladiator ranking since it will be by win %. Gladiator can do hundreds of fights every day and progress toward orange gear but won't increase his rank unless his win ratio get increased. In both Season 1 and Season 2 the experience shows that the gladiators with the highest win % tend to stay around the top.

Edit: Win% will have the flaw it doesn't count the kills .

[Narol]

With only one week left before the end of season 2, it's a good time to have a look about what ranking points are at season's end for gladiators who haven't done extra fights...

The 4 leading gladiators havinge all made more than 100 extra fights ( even near 900 for Belca !!), the best total reached without extra fights is Hubba Gubba with only 3157 points.

More generally , Ranking Points total for the 10 best ranked gladiators without extra fights range from 1483 to 3157.

So, to make Orange Items available for the best gladiators of Seasons without the need to GAME THE SYSTEM with extra fights, I would strongly suggest for next seasons to lower the ranking points requirements for those Legendary Items to respectively 1500/2500 instead of the current 4000/7000 requirements.

A system where you have no realistic chance to access those precious and decisive orange items without spending lots of trophees on extra fights is simply totally unacceptable on the long run for most players. I hope you understand that, Nate, and will pay attention to fix that unfairness !

[Prinny]

Actually Hubba Gubba also did extra fights in the sense of fighting Yukimaru, Belca, Bloody Lady and (In way lesser amount) Amon Djinn as did the rest of the Blood Gods bracket :p
Note that if you were to put 5 trophies into the glads fights everyday you would've gotten 300 extra fights (30x2 though this isn't completely accurate) let's put it in the middle so it comes down to 20$, wow that's alot for playing a free to play game for 2 months to reach orange armour...

Now that's enough for justifying my own actions :p
I agree the rankings should be brought down somewhat to the point a good gladiator would be able to access them through fighting for free rather than spending trophies so as to let every1 have a shot at them.

On a side note, Belca has pretty much reached the cap of acquiring points a couple of weeks ago since he gains 2 points for winning a match and loses 1 for a loss :p

[Narol]

I don't blame you, Prinny, if it wasn't so expensive I would have done it myself !!

Maybe it's just 20$ for 300 more fights (just for 1 glad and anyway 300 fights weren't even enough for Belca to reach the 7000 requirement), but if you add the cost of achievements and memberships you quickly get over 50$/month which is quite a lot for a game, even an excellent and addictive one like PoW !! That just cannot work...

[Pit Lord]

5000 for the weapon and 3000 for the armour seems appropriate. Gladiator with 70% will reach 5000 with a few extra fights. Gladiator with 60%+ will reach 3000 without or with a few extra fights. Gladiator with 50% will need many extra fights to reach 3000. Can't see a reason why 50% gladiator without doing extra fights will be full orange. Of course it will be possible at some point (like S4 4000/2500, S5 3000/2000) but I certainly won't be glad to see it happening immediately.

[Alba Kebab]

Actually Hubba Gubba also did extra fights in the sense of fighting Yukimaru, Belca, Bloody Lady and (In way lesser amount) Amon Djinn as did the rest of the Blood Gods bracket :p
Note that if you were to put 5 trophies into the glads fights everyday you would've gotten 300 extra fights (30x2 though this isn't completely accurate) let's put it in the middle so it comes down to 20$, wow that's alot for playing a free to play game for 2 months to reach orange armour...

Those extra fights would have been nice if Hubba won more of them...:p

[Cynaidh]

I know I for one would love to read Nate's response on this, I've already considered coming back already. :) But this issue really made me decide not to.

[Apoca1ypse]

if you want a benchmark for glads with no extra fights, Ahhnold and Bruce Iee have not had any extra fights bought for them. They have been sitting at a 60% w/l the entire season (though Ahhnold slipped in the past week and a bit)

[Narol]

Thanks Apocalypse, that will help the debate...

In my opinion, reaching 60% in Seasons is an excellent performance considering the high level of glads there, currently only 8 glads on 47 have a ratio above 60%. Those 8 DESERVES access to the better kind of orange items if you don't want the endgame to be completely locked forever between the 3 current leaders who all did a lot of extra fights already to gain uber orange items giving them an even greater advantage.

Now let's look at Apoc's glads to see what levels would then be reasonable :

Bruce Lee with 61.4% and 847 matches has 2950 points

Ahnold with 57.8% and 849 matches has 2717 points.

There is a few days left, so the 3000 limit seems in reach and could be a good level for the better orange items. I would then suggest to BGP requirements to respectively 2000/3000 instead of the current 4000/7000 needed.


3000/5000 as Pit Lord suggest would still be much too high, it would still restrict the higher orange items to the current 3-4 leading glads keeping the endgame stale and locked, with the only difference that you wouldn't even get the money from their extra-fights...

Nate, please being stop being silent and answer us, it's really a key issue and people are worried about it ! If you really need the extra money that Prinny and Pit Lord give you to keep the game running, then be honest about it and rename the game "Pit of Prinny" so that it's clear for everyone, lol !

[Prinny]

Thanks Apocalypse, that will help the debate...

In my opinion, reaching 60% in Seasons is an excellent performance considering the high level of glads there, currently only 8 glads on 47 have a ratio above 60%. Those 8 DESERVES access to the better kind of orange items if you don't want the endgame to be completely locked forever between the 3 current leaders who all did a lot of extra fights already to gain uber orange items giving them an even greater advantage.

Now let's look at Apoc's glads to see what levels would then be reasonable :

Bruce Lee with 61.4% and 847 matches has 2950 points

Ahnold with 57.8% and 849 matches has 2717 points.

There is a few days left, so the 3000 limit seems in reach and could be a good level for the better orange items. I would then suggest to BGP requirements to respectively 2000/3000 instead of the current 4000/7000 needed.


3000/5000 as Pit Lord suggest would still be much too high, it would still restrict the higher orange items to the current 3-4 leading glads keeping the endgame stale and locked, with the only difference that you wouldn't even get the money from their extra-fights...

Nate, please being stop being silent and answer us, it's really a key issue and people are worried about it ! If you really need the extra money that Prinny and Pit Lord give you to keep the game running, then be honest about it and rename the game "Pit of Prinny" so that it's clear for everyone, lol !

Haha Pit of Prinny, I like that one. Bunch of exploding penguins gathered in some hole sounds like fun :p
The 3 leaders in the rankings right now have not only had way more fights but also have a 70% rating (Granted Bloody Lady is at 69.9% right now but that only happened in the last 2 days) and I completely agree with you, they do deserve orange items :)

Now on a more serious note, the BGP ratings you just gave are pretty decent. With a 2000/3000 rating the good 60%+ glads could attain an orange weapon or two at the end of the season and glads with a winrate of 50%+ could atleast get an orange armour piece while doing free fights. If you still want them earlier you could do the extra fights to get to the rating faster. I could see it work out with those ratings~

[Apoca1ypse]

I loath the extra fights. It doesnt really make it feel like any sort of 'fair' competition unless rankings are based on W/L%, but even then.....


Extra fights were not possible for the top 10 of primus back in the day. Personally I would like that to be implemented for Blood Gods.

[HipsterD]

Extra fights were not possible for the top 10 of primus back in the day. Personally I would like that to be implemented for Blood Gods.

That would be a start. Shouldn't winning Blood Gods be the goal and the gear the reward? The gear has become the sole purpose of BG. Not my idea of fun. Pit of Prinny does not get my vote...nothing personal.

[Apoca1ypse]

Just to add to this, with the exception of ~a week, I ran my stable with a membership for the entirety of season 2.

Bruce has a 61.5 w/l ratio, 3080 points and only a few days left in the season. His w/l is 7th best overall (2% behind 5th best w/l), and just about every glad outside the top 10 is barely managing to get over 50% w/l

Going by that, and the fact that no one outside the top 10 is even close to getting 2500 points (let alone 3000) I'm an advocate for the requirements for legendary gear to be changed to 3500/2500 or 3000/2000, preferably the latter.

That plus a fight restriction on the top 10 would make it take at least 2 months to reach the points required for legendary gear, and the top level stuff only being available in the last two weeks or so depending on just how good your glad is.

[Narol]

We miss you Cynaidh !

Come back, it's fixed now and Prinny's guys need more competition for the top spots !

Btw, I want to especially thanks Prinny for supporting the requested changes to Seasons even if they ain't to his advantage, I guess the game would have get quickly boring for him if his guys were the only ones to be fully equipped with orange items in a not so distant future and there was noone else than the amazing and unique Bloody Lady to contest his supremacy...

[Apoca1ypse]

New changes to season have fixed my gripes. Yay :)

[Prinny]

Lol no problem Narol, I knew it was likely going to change as this format was exploitable so I took the chance to get my hands om some shiny new equipment. I didn't like the format myself either :p