Strength Vs Agility

[Jaradakar]

So I've been doing some experiments with my gladiators. One has massive strength the other super high Agility.

I really feel like Strength overall might be too good. It seems like it matters way more than Agility.

You'd think with a high Agility you'd either get a great deal more attacks (and you do get more) but you're also suppose to gain Defense as well but it really feel like you do not gain as much Defense as you should with Agility.

Anyway, was just wanting a reality check. What are other stable masters finding?

[Arkham]

Without much research, my gladiators who hit harder win more. I sold off my wimps, as they could not compete. I agree with your conclusion that strength offers more of a reward in the arena than agility. With a high strength and activity, you will get enough attacks in to see those big red numbers.

I recently took this idea one step further and have fielded 2 rage warriors, who are about equals. One has a mega 2hander and the other 2 smaller weapons. The mega 2hander has a 10 point disadvantage in agility to his brother in arms (made up in intellect), but does not seem to suffer in the general arena for it.

They both have a better than 2:1 w/l ratio. Hit harder. Win more.

[Dainoji]

I'll have to disagree with you both, I've been stacking agility and kicking ass big time and drop stronger opponents all the time. I don't think you guys can isolate something like you are trying to do without taking into consideration your strategies. For example let's say you stack strength and then tank. Is that strength helping you? I'd say no it isn't because you aren't attacking thus it is not being used, unless you bring in the argument that it is letting you wear heavier armor, blah, blah, blah and of course you are right in saying that but I think we are talking more about direct contributions here. Along those same lines with agility, if you are stacking agility and then using something like Berserk are you getting much of a boost in defense since Berserk offers very little to begin with? I don't know the answer to that as I try and not let my opponent swing in the first place but I'm seeing more attacks that's for sure and If you know what you are doing and are spec'd right I for one will take more attacks over bigger attacks any day, assuming of course all your attacks can do decent damage.

The other question is how are you defining "massive" strength or "super high" agility? +10, +20, +40? Just because you have +40 from your gear if your overall attribute value is 90 is that "massive" or "super high"? I don't know. I'm just now seeing gladiators with attribute values higher than 100 so who knows how high it goes and do bonuses scale linearly?

An easier comparison might be +strength vs +attack or +agility vs +defense, but even then since strength will help you wear heavier armor it helps your defensive gladiators and since agility will help you attack more it helps your offensive gladiators...I think my head esplode!

[Team Kaos]

Strength seems to indeed have the most influence on initiative and of course damage. Strength more so then agility seems to increase a gladiator offensive speed. However CHI seems to give higher damage shots when compared to strength.
And and all are countered by a high defensive skilled and geared gladiator.

I think when speaking of high and massive, it is to be believed high would be in the 90's and massive above 100.

Agility greatly increases defense but is overcome by strength. Attack Power is also a big increase but is over matched by strength.

Then again depending on what style and warrior type you are using the attributes affect them differently. A Rage warrior has more initiative then both a War and Theatrical gladiator from the start.
Defensive stats to a rage warrior or War gladiator are not nearly as effective as to a Theatrical.


An easier comparison might be +strength vs +attack or +agility vs +defense, but even then since strength will help you wear heavier armor it helps your defensive gladiators and since agility will help you attack more it helps your offensive gladiators.

Its really is hard to judge since each style has its own benefits to attribute and skill. A mega strength rage seems to over power mega strength or attack power Wars and theatricals, but that only makes sense due to the rage type.


Stack a rage warrior with agility and it will not be as effective as a theatrical stacked in agility.

There is no one size fits all over the 3 styles.
It would probably be best to compare the attribute and skill effects based on each style.


Everything has a counter to it and so far there is no dominant gladiator type, since each can and has been beat by another style or build.

But all it takes is one lucky good shot that either stuns or knockdown and the fight can be easily ended by any type gladiator.

So far it has been the rage gladiators since they have the big strength, the heavy weapons and untold initiative to beat the other styles to the first swing.
But if you can defend it or withstand it, the rage gladiator becomes a bit easier to defeat.

[Jaradakar]

I agree with your definition of "high and massive" Team kaos.

I've got two rage gladiators, one has 80 Strength (88 w/gear) but his Agility is only 60. The other one only has 60 Strength, but his Agility is 100 w/gear. The one with higher Agility also has higher weapon skill (8) but so far he's doing much much worse in the pits than my Strength Rage Gladiator, which sort of pisses me off. He's got more skill and higher Agility than the other has strength, yet he seems to be losing quite a bit. The Agility gladiator also has better gear than the Strength one.

Anyway again sort of annoyed that's how it seems to work. Apparently I should sell/swap out his gear for Strength and just run him with his naturally high Agility... hmm.

[Dainoji]

I agree with your definition of "high and massive" Team kaos.

I've got two rage gladiators, one has 80 Strength (88 w/gear) but his Agility is only 60. The other one only has 60 Strength, but his Agility is 100 w/gear. The one with higher Agility also has higher weapon skill (8) but so far he's doing much much worse in the pits than my Strength Rage Gladiator, which sort of pisses me off. He's got more skill and higher Agility than the other has strength, yet he seems to be losing quite a bit. The Agility gladiator also has better gear than the Strength one.

Anyway again sort of annoyed that's how it seems to work. Apparently I should sell/swap out his gear for Strength and just run him with his naturally high Agility... hmm.

As I said earlier, I really don't think you can't just isolate one attribute like you are trying to do. What kind of weapon is your high agility gladiator using? Is it a big slow weapon? If so you aren't really taking advantage of the high agility score. What style are you using? Berserk? If so, don't expect to have have any defense. Before you run off, sell his gear and join the latest fad make sure you aren't missing something, because I'm sure next week someone will jump on the boards and say fighting with a midget on your back is the best way to do things!

[Team Kaos]

I've got two rage gladiators, one has 80 Strength (88 w/gear) but his Agility is only 60. The other one only has 60 Strength, but his Agility is 100 w/gear. The one with higher Agility also has higher weapon skill (8) but so far he's doing much much worse in the pits than my Strength Rage Gladiator, which sort of pisses me off. He's got more skill and higher Agility than the other has strength, yet he seems to be losing quite a bit. The Agility gladiator also has better gear than the Strength one.


As I said above, strength in a Rage is a huge factor as not only does the Rage almost always get the first swing, but if he has even decent strength he runs the chance of knocking down or stunning his opponent on the first shot, after that it's likely the Rage will just get stronger due to Brute Force, Rampage and Blood Lust among others. The only way I have seen to combat strength is through defense.
It's very likely that if you can avoid getting beat down the first few swings, the Rage seems to start missing and fumbling a bit. Sure theres always the chance of that 300+ blast that caves your gladiator's chest which becomes the beginning of the end. But most that I have seen if you can weather the first wave you have a good chance at taking the Rage out.
Agility on the other hand seems to be key in out hitting and making your opponent miss a lot when the opponent is not keyed up on Strength.

[Blackwill]

I've seen the effects of Battle Fatigue, and you're right. If you can withstand the initial onslaught from a Rager, they DO begin to slow down a bit, and they seem to drop their guard easier.

[Team Kaos]

If you can withstand the initial onslaught from a Rager, they DO begin to slow down a bit, and they seem to drop their guard easier

I don't think the words Rager and guard belong in the same sentence. If anyone has a Rager and is building them for defense, please raise your hand, I would love to add you to my favorit's on my challenge list.

Rage style displays little to no defensive ability, but their swings to slow down after the first wave and 2fold past the 1st round.

[Jaradakar]

The high Agility Gladiator is using a Bastard Sword, 1.15 speed with ~137 DPR -- It might be that I'm using Beserk, maybe I should not come out the gate using that. I'm not going to sell his gear just yet (it was too expensive to just replace on a whim) and I need/want further testing to see if he perhaps just had a string of bad luck.

He's recently won his last couple of fights and does seem to finally be doing better. He does have a higher win/loss ratio than the Strength Gladiator and is 2 lvls lower than him.

[Blackwill]

I don't think the words Rager and guard belong in the same sentence. If anyone has a Rager and is building them for defense, please raise your hand, I would love to add you to my favorit's on my challenge list.



Figure of speech. Not literally.

[CaineDeSoulis]

I'm really at an impass with cainedesoulis in regards to strength vs. agility currently ive got him built for both, hitting the century mark in both attributes but in his last few fights he's only managed the high 200's and 300's in his strikes taking more than 4 shots to down an opponent which when your using a twohander and have light armor you'll usually get dead before the enemy falls. i could get his strength to 150+ and 80 or so agility with the appropriate gear or continue my route of 130 str and 100 agility. since its not possible to quantify the damage gained from 20 points of strength or the attacks/defense lessened from the loss of agility. i'd really like the community's input on this one.

[Sythion]

I know I'm relatively new here, but my experiences regarding strength and rage are different than the norm. I struggle vs rage with my war gladiators, but my fast blade high dex theatrics absolutely dominates anyone with a big weapon. No one seems to get a shot of vs. him.

[Team Kaos]

IMO I see no reason for a high agility 2 handed weapon wielding Rage or even war for that matter. The 2 handed weapon negates any real worth of ultra high agility. I'd go for the mega strength and clobber anything I hit. But like Sythion said from his own experience, your gladiator will struggle vs theatrics gladiators that can dodge the few swings you make.
There is no ultimate destroyer created just yet. AT least I have not seen one.