HOL slaves - may soon be locked out to new players

[AngryVermin]

Just my opinion, but I think that the requirement of a 55% win rate on 1500+ fights will become not possible for any new kid on the block.

If I reach Primus top 75 in say 450 fights, that leaves 1,000+ fights of me vs the top 50. You guys have had time to move stats where you want, get all 10's on everything, etc.

I dont mind that, that is kinda the way it should be - your real time and experience in the game gives you the edge.

The problem is that I dont know if I can make it to 1500 fights and still have 55% win ratio.

I DO NOT WANT TO, but, this makes me pick on the same people that I am pretty sure that I can beat. I think this sucks, but it is what I have to do to try and meet this stat.

I repeat, I do not want to fight the same people whenever I can, but I am being left with no choice - because I will need those special slaves even more in the future. I think it sux.

I suggest a simple requirement of 1,500 fights with a fighter without the 55% requirement. Are there other ways to solve this?

Cheers,

[Prinny]

You can get good gladiators without them being HoL ones. If you think about it 55% isnt that much though it does take a while before you get to 1500 fights. What would probably help aswell is raising some dual mace rages seeing as them will pummel quite abit of the gladiators out there and will likely have atleast 55% though ofcourse it isn't a guaranteed thing :P

Your glads will most likely challenge gladiators around their rank so I doubt they will be fighting the top all the time :)

Problem is if the requirements are lowered the bar for getting 1 of those monsters might be set to low and the game will get flooded by them :P

[AngryVermin]

I guess my reply would be - why is only ok for people who are already the best at the game to have the only "flood" of the best slaves.

Isn't the next post "Is Primus binding up like a rock hard turd?". Doesn't this start to tell you that the top 50 of Primus is just the best of the best now - but in the future, all of Primus will be HOL slave builds. It may not be next month, but it will be in the next years.

The question becomes, how will anyone new be able to get those slaves? Do you really only want to have to fight between your yourselves in the future?

I may be off base, I will tell you when I make it to 1500. I can tell you unequivocally that if I make it to 1500 and I dont have the stats for access to those slaves, then I will no longer be investing in this game. Why would I? Why would anyone? It takes a crapload of investment in time to make it to 1500.

[Dainoji]

I guess my reply would be - why is only ok for people who are already the best at the game to have the only "flood" of the best slaves.

It's not, and that statement isn't true. HOL glads are available to all players.


Isn't the next post "Is Primus binding up like a rock hard turd?".

That thread is nonsense, pay it no mind.

You're worrying about nothing. The way the rankings work is the more wins you get the higher you go until you stop winning all the time and a balance is met where you'll be around gladiators mostly your skill level. Many of your gladiators will reach Primus and if they don't suck they'll hit 1500 fights and will have a 55% win record. Not all gladiators will accomplish this and that is by design. The HOL stands for Hall of LEGENDS, not everyone can be a legend. I haven't seen this flood of HOL gladiators and don't think it will happen either. I hardly call 20 or 30 gladiators a flood. I also don't think these new HOL gladiators are going to destroy the current crop of gladiators either, they are good, even a little better but they aren't light years better. A HOL gladiator just has boosted attributes, that's it. At the far reaches of the end game all things being equal a HOL gladiator might have the edge but I don't think that edge is going to be a dominating edge. I still think a 1st gen gladiator who's build has an advantage over a HOL glad will win. This game has a soft rock-paper-scissors mechanic built in and that isn't going to just vanish. Now bring in conquests and the easier access to legendary weapons, the new skill trees and new school with three new specialties and it's anyone's game. <--- Hey Nate can we have everything I listed by Monday? ;)

Stop worrying about the destination and enjoy the journey. :) That's where a lot of the fun is anyhow.

[Cynaidh]

Now bring in conquests and the easier access to legendary weapons, the new skill trees and new school with three new specialties and it's anyone's game. <--- Hey Nate can we have everything I listed by Monday?

Hell just an update on the status of them would be nice. :)

[Pit Lord]

Good post AngryVermin. I agree with your opinion. The HOL is nice,but the HOL slaves may be not so good idea.While now there are 20-30 HOL slave gladiators in the future this number will increase and eventualy the primus bracket will turn into HOL slaves bracket.New gladiators will have hard time achieving that 55% - for sure much harder difficulty then the first group of HOL. And for sure you wont have a shoot for top 10 or 25 without having HOL slave yourself. So for newcomers the first step will be obtaining a HOL slave. As we can see when obtaining 55% while remaining in primus bracket will be extremely hard and risky - we will prefer to remain in the lower brackets until reaching the necessery matches and wins - and only then push to primus bracket just to retire...Then we can play normally with the HOL slaves on even terms. But this will lead to filling the lower brackets with stronger gladiators then normally would be there and for the next newcomers the game will be even more difficult.

The system of rewarding the strongest with making them even stronger always will lead to stagnation simply because nobody will want to face them with additional disadvantage.

If the HOL slaves didnt exist people will push as high as they can without worrying for win % because if they want they can start again on even terms any time.But now the new and cleaver players i think already realizing they should not go as high as they can (to the point where they are 50/50) before they have enough spare wins...

How to solve this?

Removing the HOL slaves from the game wont be good - already some people obtained them and its unfair to new players.

Removing the HOL slaves from the game and somehow ballancing the already recruited HOL slaves to normal slaves - not fair to the HOL slave owners since they retired to get THAT SLAVE.

Make HOL slaves more accesable - witch mean when gladiator retires the award is not HOL slave but something else, and on the other hand the so called HOL slaves will be no HOL slaves anymore because they will be obtainable by other means.

[Alba Kebab]

I honestly don't see the worry, if you are good enough you should have a good win record to start with no matter which bracket you are in, all you have to grind out is 1500 fights.
All our fights are ranked and most are against glads similar in lvl to you, those in Primus below rank 50 will rarely fight anyone from the top 10, and those below rank 100 will hardly ever see someone from the top 50.
So what are you guys worrying about?

My two retired glads never made it high into primus, they'd lose half their fights after entering primus, did not have many trophy-paid-for hybrid class skills, and still had no problems meeting the HoL requirement as soon as they completed 1500 fights. And they could have done it wearing just blue equipment, even though I was able to afford purple gear for them in the end.
It's achievable even for a free player.
You just need to be reasonable and understand your first batch of gladiators will probably never make it, or your second batch... that's how long the learning curve takes. So yes it will take months before you get there as a new player, but that's the sort of time frame we are playing this game on.

[Narol]

Stats are not all, a good choice of skills and a finely tailored strat can easily overcome better stats...

Achievements can also help, the best achievements take lots of time to unlock and HoL Slaves won't have them immediately...

Also, if you are patient and lucky, you can find in the market slaves with stats comparable to those of HoL slaves... And if you ain't patient, you can still spend trophie to get more batches...

[oedi]

New gladiators will have hard time achieving that 55% -

yes indeed, and why should`nt be hard? No pleasure in things just given to you. I just looks easy for those already entered HoL beacause quite a few was qualified when it opened up. I cannot speak for all, but my gladiators that has been retired all was older than 10 months, with the oldest about 18 months. And some of my oldest gladiators that I still play will never qualify. Atm Im struggeling to qualify nineeighty, and it sure aint easy. I started a month ago, with 54,8%, and im still there, after being up to 54,9 and down to 54,4 in between.
But when I finally do it, its Chrismas :D, hopefully a few weeks early.

[Cynaidh]

Not sure if i am sold this will be an issue, when i got back playing here last month i had a glad with around 1100 fights and i wanted an HOL slave, the community actually helped me get the fights as i made a post that she was taking on all comer's to challenge away, she made it up to 2nd place in primus before she hit 1500 fight, she wasn't stat capped, she had most of skill training done... but the point is she made it to 2nd in primus with a 62.2% win ratio at exactly 1500 fights. So it's doable now, and i think a well built glad will always be able to get to 55% especially if you do your challenges right.

[Lunarion199]

I too think normal slaves can compete with HOL slaves if the former ones have got well-planned skills. Just that the skills should not be made visible to anyone in the scouting report otherwise if proven successful and then got copied by HOL slaves, the normal slaves may not have any strategic advantage anymore. At least after implementing the new skill tree the game should prevent anyone from viewing any slave's skillset, which would keep the normal slaves on an competitive edge.

[Prinny]

Not being able to view their skillset would make scouting fairly useless...

[Lunarion199]

True.. perhaps scouting won't even be required. We can anyway see slave stats and weapon stats after a fight. We may not want to exploit someone's genius skill planning which would be the only secret weapon for the normal slaves.

[Narol]

I think that Lunarion has a point, skillset should not be visible in scouting...

It's too easy to copy a successful glad when you can see his full skill tree and the game would be even more challenging if you had to find the most efficient skill selection by yourself !

[Cynaidh]

I agree it would make the game more interesting if you had to figure out what they where using rather then just spending 1 trophie and looking and seeing.

[AngryVermin]

The only way to know if this will really be a problem or not - is time.

I really do not understand all of the arguments that "you can get 1500 fights and 55% wins without fighting in Primus"

There is not a single glad in the top 50 of Maximus that has stats that would get HOL slaves.

I'm not bent out shape about it. It is just a suggestion. Something that I think the "Game Gods" should start watching out for. It may not be a problem.

Cheers

[Kreegan]

Pay no attention to the HoL gladiators outside Primus, it's bollock - among other things one of the prerequisites for this status is actually being in Primus when you retire a qualified fighter. And yes, this 1500 fights, 55% success rate is pretty unachievable outside Primus, with the only other option being to intentionally lose some fights so you can stay in a lower bracket which on the other hand prolongs the whole exercise because you need to have the minimum efficiency mentioned above to qualify.
On the other hand, I too don't think that the HoL is locked for new players - it's just a bit harder to get there than before. In about a month the current HoL replacements which are already in Primus will be fully trained (provided that their owners don't spend trophies on training and some of them seem to do that) and will probably "reserve" top 50 for themselves and some of the old dogs which are currently performing well, so your Primus rookies - if they aren't monsters themselves - will have to settle with the bottom of the bracket and try to achieve a HoL status there. Bear in mind that with the HoL introduced the bottom price of a slave which could be turned to at least a mediocre Primus material is no less than 960-970 gold so don't buy anything below that if you intend to compete (save if the stat distribution isn't especially suiting for some specific build).

[oedi]

Maybe the reward of being HoL eligible could be tied to achivement points in addition to to the present requirement? So we have 2 paths to get there. Maybe somewhere around 5500 achivement points?

[Apoca1ypse]

I think Oedi's suggestion opens up a nice way for more casual players to get a hold of beefcake glads by just playing the waiting game. I dont mind that TBH. Just come up with another name for them with a theme of distinguished service or something :)

[Alba Kebab]

My 2 retired glads only ever made it as high as the rank 40-50s in primus, and spent most of their primus time in rank 50-100. Yet meeting the HoL requirement was never a problem for me.

You don't need to get into primus top 50 or top 20 and compete against ungodly monsters to make it to HoL, that's the point I was trying to make, because that seem to be what some players are worrying about.

[AngryVermin]

Please confirm - I cannot get into the HOL if I meet all stats with a slave that I originally purchased for less than 960? Did I read the below correctly! If so, how do I know now. That was a month of playing ago...

---posted by another--
Bear in mind that with the HoL introduced the bottom price of a slave which could be turned to at least a mediocre Primus material is no less than 960-970 gold so don't buy anything below that if you intend to compete (save if the stat distribution isn't especially suiting for some specific build).

Did the above mean that I cannot turn in my guy to HOL if he was purchased for a low price?

[Kreegan]

No, there's no formally set price for a HoL gladiator, theoretically you can turn a 800 gold slave into HoL member but in practice you'll need a much more competent one. And I'm talking about the price of a slave which is to enter Primus and stay there for a while without getting his ass kicked 80% of the time, not one who is to get retired immediately after he meets the criteria. A slave below 950 gold will just turn into floor-cloth once he enters Primus, except if you use all achievement slots on him.

[Apoca1ypse]

It will still be possible, but you'll just have to be a little more diligent with working out strategies, and making good use of challenge/avoid

[AngryVermin]

OKAY - The Thread is CLOSED. You are right, I was wrong. The game god has done well with ratio's.

I have made it to approx 1700 fights and I have about 77% win ratio with my first guy.

I just hope that I can keep the ratio high enough to finish my testing of stats and actually be able to give you guys a run for your money!

Tell me, do I have access to the same HOL slaves as you guys when I retire, or do I get better ones by retiring better glads?

[Cynaidh]

I think its the same pool of Slaves, and HOL Slave is an HOL Slave, doesn't matter if you retire with 80% win or 55%.


And how can you close a thread and then ask a question in it. ;)