Primus getting overcrowded?

[Kreegan]

Two of my gladiators are now in the top bracket (one of them for about a week or so) and... uh... there are 115 other gladiators already there and the number seems to be growing by the day. Doesn't really feel like an elite club with so many members. When I signed up there were maybe 2 or 3 Primus gladiators, it took maybe a month or so to become 9-10 and now there are some two dozens of new Primus entries each month, if not more. This is due to the new game pace apparently but Primus feels like just-another-bracket this way and frankly it will become just another bracket if the ascendants keep flowing in at that rate.
So, I think it will be better to make Primus a small, really elite bracket capped at 10 places at most and the rest to be pushed back to Maximus and below. I realize that this will probably "reserve" these 10 spots for the current top performers but this is the current situation anyway, except that Primus is much larger. To make it more interesting, there could be an additional rule to enter the bracket when your gladiator has enough points to "ascend" - to directly challenge one of the Primus gladiators and defeat him/her. Respectively dropping out of the bracket will become possible. What say you?

[Narol]

I have too the feeling that Primus gets overcrowded and that sounds like an interesting solution to fix it...

There could be a rule that the champion of the Maximus bracket can challenge the 10th of Primus if he has more ranking points than him and take his place in the elite if he wins the match...

[Cynaidh]

I too believe the primus should only be a top 10, then the maximus be the following 25, blood gods be the next 50

I guess the only question i have is how is this different then the top 75 of primus currently, its the same number of glads, just it makes it harder for people to come up cause maybe someone needs that attack power achievement in their build for hitting primus (or defense which ever it was). I just don't really see the difference, either if primus is a 10 glads or 25, it means the first tier under them that doesn't have a cap will end up having hundreds and hundreds of glads eventually, its still going to be weird your going to still have some tier somewhere be it primus, maximus, blood gods or below that has a HUGE number of glads.

Personally i think what we are missing is a system where the top glads at some point are removed from the regular arena and are invited by the "gods" to move up from the pits to an arena where the truly spectacular fight each other forever with the gift of immortality, this arena would have its own rules: no challenges, no avoids, no glads from stables not fighting each other, random match ups each fight, each glad fights for his own glory... no ability to make teams, just who is the best immortal warrior. These immortals would no longer count against the maximum number of glads a stable can have, once you have a gladiator ascend you'd have a slot free to start a new glad.


Also i have to comment on:


The rankings used to show us who the best glads were, no one could dispute that Laharl, Solstice, Thunder lips, Eruption, Ormgar...were the very elite glads of the game when each ruled the top. Now it has purely turned into a group protect at all cost our top glads and don't expose them to potential losses from builds that can beat them game.


This is like the 3rd post that i have seen in the past week that says basically that my top glads aren't as good as the old previous top gladiators, that some how they have it easier. I don't particularly agree with this.

So first i'd like to look at belgarad, when belgarad climbed up to the top spot (before the points change) Crow you had i believe 7 of the top 10 slots, rank 1 - 4 where all from the same stable in fact if i remember correctly, so at that time ranks 1 - 4 didn't even fight each other at all, they all fought belgarad cause he was ranked 5th at the time :) I don't really see how that's any different then how it is now, except back then it was harder to move up with the old points system, but yet he did it and took 1st place. In the past two blood games he has finished 2nd and 4th overall. Also as far as i know he is the only glad to have beat the top challenge of the arena challenges Emperor Etulutu.

Zmash didn't even take the top spot on my fight tokens, there is a forum post somewhere where in one day he went from i believe 5th place to first, taking the top spot , due to him being challenged/fighting Oedi and Crows glad's over i believe it was 30 times and beating enough of these challenges of all different styles and builds to take the top spot. So there wasn't anyone "protecting" him then, he just smashed everyone who challenged him and was pushed into first place which he then held until him, belgarad, and black talon started doing musical chairs with 1st due to the points being normalized how they are (when your in 1st your lucky to get 100 points in a win it seems). In the past two blood games he has finished 5th and 1st overall.

Black Talon who has been in 1st several times this past week is quite possibly my best glad, he was a near 1100g size 82 monster who is now an Olympian (and rocking 92 size) and who's build was completed at the end of last month. In this bloodgames, his first since breaking into the top 10 in primus, he is the ONLY undefeated gladiator left in the current game (of course i probably just jinks-ed him).

So honestly I don't see how anyone can "dispute" they are some of the best glads in the pit right now.

[Dainoji]

The problem many of you aren't thinking about is all games have an "end game". Congratulations, you are in it right now. All end games differ than the regular game for good reason. I'll attempt to address many of the points brought up.

1) Primus is over crowded.
To be honest, I was quite surprised to read this. Is there such a thing as too much competition? I say hell no. The more the merrier. I don't see this as a problem in the slightest, actually I see it as a boon. If your gripe is you don't like being ranked 100th, then it means you have work to do.

2) Primus should be a small elite group.
That already exsists, it is called the Primus Top 10 and the Blood Games.

3) The new point system.
Again, this is another great idea and has been talked about at length already. The old point system would have fostered the "boys club" syndrome where length of play would be the determining factor, not skill. So sure, I can see why Crow and others might be upset because they are the very managers who were hurt by this system (not saying you don't have skill, I'm saying you have longevity on your side), but if a new player joined the game and realizes they'll never catch the top gladiators, they'll just quit. The only real solution to that is to start new servers if you want to keep the old system, but then you run the risk of having ghost town servers and cannibalizing other servers, and if other games are any indication on how many players you put on a server, this one server we have now is not even close to being full.

4) Rankings don't show who is the best.
This statement is only partially true. Any ranking system for any sport is flawed and never truly shows who is the best, people and teams have bad days, blah, blah, blah. The current system fosters a kind of cooperation like most end games which is what many have been asking for. A more social experience. Sure, "chat" was specifically asked for, but the underlying desire is "social". You already have a "single player" experience in the blood games and the rest of the game, primus is different. Those who have a successful "guild" are smiling, those who don't are smiling less often. There is always a ruffling of the feather when the guard changes. I still think Team Kaos quit because he didn't like losing when other managers started getting the upper hand on his gladiators. It used to be Crow and Oedi ruling the roost, now it's Cynaidh, and tomorrow it will be...someone else. I think it is great that different managers can take power and we don't have a Solstice sitting on the throne for 8 months anymore.

It is true losing drops you down more than a win props you up and as it should. Now only gladiators who are by all measure equal to everyone around them (almost everyone in Primus is level 50 with 100 skill points) will rise in the ranks because they win more often than not. Focus on the journey and less on the destination and you'll be a lot happier.

5) Now it has purely turned into a group protect at all cost our top glads and don't expose them to potential losses from builds that can beat them game.
I really don't see it like this at all. Sure it helps to have guild mates, but really the issue is managers need some better controls on avoiding and challenging to help them navigate the rankings. Sometimes you find yourself in a rough patch where everyone around your glad is better or a build that causes your glad a hard time. Better controls could help mitigate this and help bust through some walls. The second thing that would help would be to expand the challenge and avoid lists, or at the very least allow the top 40 glads to always have the top 10 glads on their list. This would prevent the kind of protection the top 10 currently offers.

6) Personally i think what we are missing is a system where the top glads at some point are removed from the regular arena and are invited...
Again, we already have this, it's called the Blood Games with the exception of being removed form the regular arena. Besides, that new arena would over time just be the place everyone complains about it being too crowded and the rankings, etc. ;) What might work is a "next bracket" that is more like seasons and everyone fights for X months and then it resets. This would solve numerous issues. I've already sent Nate a PM about my idea on this.

7) The jibes about Cynaidh's glads not deserving their top spots
hehe, this is funny. :) It's a lot of sour grapes, it happens to anyone who sits on the throne for too long. I did it all the time to Team Kaos when Solstice grew roots on the throne. Your glads are good, no doubt about it, but they are afforded protection via a glitch in the system and the current design others don't have. Most other glads fight more often (and a more varied menu of gladiator builds) than your top glads since they are randomly matched up a lot more and you are in a "pocket" where glads that can beat them more often aren't able to get to them. The bottom line is they are great glads, there is a lot of sour grapes being brought to tables right now and with a couple changes like I outlined above giving more glads reach I think you'll find holding the top spots will become a lot more difficult.

The best way I've found to influence the development of the game is to post or PM Nate with well thought out suggestions that outline what I think is a problem and then offer a handful of well thought out alternatives. Nobody knows what kind of goodies lies in the future, it's pretty obvious to me that after playing this game for almost 1.5 years that new things are always coming online when possible and it sometimes feels like we are getting the game in pieces as they try and get us new content as fast as they can since the devs don't have a large team, and when you get something in pieces there are always snapshots where they game feels "broken" without the next piece, or players get somewhere faster than planned. Who knows, maybe there is something planned for "after Primus" that will address many of these concerns. I've already sent off a few PMs to Nate about it and he's said there is something planned, so you may get what you asked for. :)

As usual, my cheery two pence! ;)

[Nate]

Eric and I do have a lot of plans for the game's future expansions, and once the current round of updates are done we'll try and give you an idea of what some of those will be. Right now as I outlined in a different post we're working on making the game more accessible to new players, and then the balancing pass will be the next priority. Conquests are being worked on in parallel but as it is a big task it will take longer to complete. As always we appreciate your patience and if you have any comments or suggestions, please let us know!

Good luck in the Pit!

-Nate-