Nate
01-14-2011, 04:51 AM
Greetings Pit Masters!
In the near future there is going to be a change to how Total Parry works but before breaking out into a slow motion scene where we all see you running out into the street dropping down to your knees while looking to the Heavens and clasping your hands together with victorious music playing in the background or shaking a raging fist and that poor little lady walking by with your lip all in a snarl, keep reading. ;)
If you just want to know what the change is going to be, skip to the end. If you'd also like to know a bit more details and background info, start here:
In the beginning...
There has been a lot of discussion on the boards recently regarding Total Parry and whether or not it is balanced and always one to keep a good pulse on the situation when it comes to these kinds of issues I run lots and lots of simulations to the tune of 100,000+ using the gladiators from our very own arena. During the Beta which went on for almost 7 months we saw a lot of fights as well as a lot of balancing passes. By the end (which is what we are using now) things were/are pretty balanced.
WTF?! How can you say that Nate? Are you blind?!
When I run all those sims no one style is a decided victor and no one specialty stands above the rest. In general after the sims are done things are pretty even. There are certain gladiator builds that do much better against other builds and we see an advantage but that is to be expected, and a quick change to the proper skills, strategies and or gear and that advantage goes away. There are variations in the results based on where the gladiators are on the leveling curve as well but that is also to be expected
I call B.S. how do you explain the rankings?
Almost half of the gladiators in the arena are War and that has been the case ever since the launch and that percent has remained steady (must be the cool picture) so when looking at the top spots and counting how many gladiators of X specialty are there it is misleading to then conclude one style is better than another based on that and a handful of observations. We tend to remember things that support our opinions and ignore the things that don't. If 90% of the arena is Rage and rage hold 9 of the top 10 spots it makes sense. If they instead only held 1 of the 10 that would be more interesting and cause for alarm. This is obviously just one part of a larger equation with many other things factoring into it, I simply point this one out to highlight the dangers of using small sample sets and not all the data to form conclusions.
Ok, let's say you are right, it still feels broken.
When I first set out to make Pit of War I borrowed on other games I played from days past and added and changed things. In one game from hallowed antiquity gladiators who ran defensivly were notoriously called Scum or TP Scum. A very similar scenario was present, not exactly the same but the feelings surrounding them were the same. It was a very polarizing issue and style and you generally embraced them or vehemently opposed them. I happen to hate them and went back and forth on including such a style in PoW. I've been making games for about 20 years and after doing much research on the topic and analyzing numerous games I concluded that to have a complete strategy game you must include defense. Having a viable defensive option for the player adds depth and so much to a game multiplying the number of strategic options a player must consider by orders of magnitude.
Nate, defense isn't standing around and waiting for the other guy to fall over!
I 100% agree and that is where the change comes in. As I mentioned above Total Parry builds are very beatable under the current system, they are just a boring way to win and infuriating when you lose to them. It was never my vision for the game that gladiators would stand around and wait for their opponent to pass out and oddly that type of defensive gladiator wasn't widely used in the Beta. It is now however and with such a large percentage of gladiators being War it magnifies the issue.
Whew! Thank the gods you hate the Scum!
As I said it is not my vision for the game that gladiators just stand there and do nothing, but having a strong and effective defensive strategy available to players is. So the change that I'm currently playing around with will deincentivize doing just that, however you should not expect that your gladiator who is not spec'd to beat a tank to miraculously start beating tanks.
.
.
.
.
.
And without further adieu, allow me to introduce Mr. Tank n' Spank!
Tank n' Spank? What's that? Sounds like some kind of kinky S&M thing or something you buy your friends at the bar when they turn 21...If you play MMOs you no doubt have heard this term. Tank n' Spank represents a character build who is meant to absorb a bunch of damage and then go offensive and lay the smack down.
This is the direction we will be aiming for for defensive gladiators. Some of you may still choose to run the old way and it might work sometimes but know it will be a lot harder. Aside from changing internal values around things like the crowd throwing hard objects at you and the Enforcer slapping you upside the head if you are boring the crowd will encourage you to find alternative ways of winning.
This change HAS NOT yet been implemented and when it is I'll let you know. For all the tanks out there who rely on outlasting their opponents you might want to start experimenting with your strategies now to learn how you'll take advantage of this new change so you'll hit the ground running.
Thanks everyone and good luck in the Pit!
-Nate-
In the near future there is going to be a change to how Total Parry works but before breaking out into a slow motion scene where we all see you running out into the street dropping down to your knees while looking to the Heavens and clasping your hands together with victorious music playing in the background or shaking a raging fist and that poor little lady walking by with your lip all in a snarl, keep reading. ;)
If you just want to know what the change is going to be, skip to the end. If you'd also like to know a bit more details and background info, start here:
In the beginning...
There has been a lot of discussion on the boards recently regarding Total Parry and whether or not it is balanced and always one to keep a good pulse on the situation when it comes to these kinds of issues I run lots and lots of simulations to the tune of 100,000+ using the gladiators from our very own arena. During the Beta which went on for almost 7 months we saw a lot of fights as well as a lot of balancing passes. By the end (which is what we are using now) things were/are pretty balanced.
WTF?! How can you say that Nate? Are you blind?!
When I run all those sims no one style is a decided victor and no one specialty stands above the rest. In general after the sims are done things are pretty even. There are certain gladiator builds that do much better against other builds and we see an advantage but that is to be expected, and a quick change to the proper skills, strategies and or gear and that advantage goes away. There are variations in the results based on where the gladiators are on the leveling curve as well but that is also to be expected
I call B.S. how do you explain the rankings?
Almost half of the gladiators in the arena are War and that has been the case ever since the launch and that percent has remained steady (must be the cool picture) so when looking at the top spots and counting how many gladiators of X specialty are there it is misleading to then conclude one style is better than another based on that and a handful of observations. We tend to remember things that support our opinions and ignore the things that don't. If 90% of the arena is Rage and rage hold 9 of the top 10 spots it makes sense. If they instead only held 1 of the 10 that would be more interesting and cause for alarm. This is obviously just one part of a larger equation with many other things factoring into it, I simply point this one out to highlight the dangers of using small sample sets and not all the data to form conclusions.
Ok, let's say you are right, it still feels broken.
When I first set out to make Pit of War I borrowed on other games I played from days past and added and changed things. In one game from hallowed antiquity gladiators who ran defensivly were notoriously called Scum or TP Scum. A very similar scenario was present, not exactly the same but the feelings surrounding them were the same. It was a very polarizing issue and style and you generally embraced them or vehemently opposed them. I happen to hate them and went back and forth on including such a style in PoW. I've been making games for about 20 years and after doing much research on the topic and analyzing numerous games I concluded that to have a complete strategy game you must include defense. Having a viable defensive option for the player adds depth and so much to a game multiplying the number of strategic options a player must consider by orders of magnitude.
Nate, defense isn't standing around and waiting for the other guy to fall over!
I 100% agree and that is where the change comes in. As I mentioned above Total Parry builds are very beatable under the current system, they are just a boring way to win and infuriating when you lose to them. It was never my vision for the game that gladiators would stand around and wait for their opponent to pass out and oddly that type of defensive gladiator wasn't widely used in the Beta. It is now however and with such a large percentage of gladiators being War it magnifies the issue.
Whew! Thank the gods you hate the Scum!
As I said it is not my vision for the game that gladiators just stand there and do nothing, but having a strong and effective defensive strategy available to players is. So the change that I'm currently playing around with will deincentivize doing just that, however you should not expect that your gladiator who is not spec'd to beat a tank to miraculously start beating tanks.
.
.
.
.
.
And without further adieu, allow me to introduce Mr. Tank n' Spank!
Tank n' Spank? What's that? Sounds like some kind of kinky S&M thing or something you buy your friends at the bar when they turn 21...If you play MMOs you no doubt have heard this term. Tank n' Spank represents a character build who is meant to absorb a bunch of damage and then go offensive and lay the smack down.
This is the direction we will be aiming for for defensive gladiators. Some of you may still choose to run the old way and it might work sometimes but know it will be a lot harder. Aside from changing internal values around things like the crowd throwing hard objects at you and the Enforcer slapping you upside the head if you are boring the crowd will encourage you to find alternative ways of winning.
This change HAS NOT yet been implemented and when it is I'll let you know. For all the tanks out there who rely on outlasting their opponents you might want to start experimenting with your strategies now to learn how you'll take advantage of this new change so you'll hit the ground running.
Thanks everyone and good luck in the Pit!
-Nate-